Scotland Trip Rankings

[JWinick]

We experienced 11 great golf courses over 7 magical days under great conditions (just 4 holes of rain!).    Because we had a larger group (8 golfers rather than 4 last year) than we had last year in Ireland, we decided to get a driver and van and were very pleased with the experience as all 8 of us could travel together. 

Since we all seem to like rankings, I will give you my rankings of the courses from least to best.   Please note that every single course was a great golf course.

11) New Course

We all thought this was a solid, albeit probably the least challenging course that we played.    I thought the par-3 9^th hole was a real stand-out, a long par 3 with out of bounds running along the rear and left of the hole with water in the background.

10) Carnoustie

Carnoustie was easily the most difficult course that we played.   I really enjoyed the strong finish (16-17-18 must be one of the best in tournament golf) and the challenge of the course.    I must say that the town was the least attractive (a bit of a dump) of the courses within a town that we played.   It was the most difficultly bunkered golf course I have ever played (more so than Oakmont), especially since the fairway bunkers were as steep (and sometimes steeper) than the greenside bunkers. 

9) Kingsbarns

Kingsbarns had some of the best views of any course I have played.     I really enjoyed the stretch of holes in which we cross the forest line.   It was definitely a modern course and was the least “natural” course we played.    While we enjoyed it a lot, we felt that Castle Stuart did modern better. 

Castle Stuart

Castle Stuart is a fun, modern golf course with wide fairways and spectacular views.     The Par-3 4^th hole with the Castle in the background was as well framed a golf-hole that one could design.    The only drawback was the stretch of holes into the same wind direction was a bit of a bear coming back and showed how penal the course could be into a stiff breeze.    Overall, a lot of fun to play!

7) Old Course

Let the hating begin.    I am strictly reviewing the golf course, and trying not to get caught up in the hype and history.    The great holes of the Old Course meet expectations (both Par-5s, the Road Hole, and 18^th), but there are just a few indifferent holes in the front nine.    I loved the room on the golf course (very friendly to someone fighting a hook!) and the constant movement in the fairways.    There was nothing more exhilarating on my trip than ripping a 3-wood on the 1^st hole down the middle in front of hundreds of people.    One member of our foursome nearly holed out on 18 as well!   Note: two of us got out on the old course with about 30 minutes of lead time at around 4:30 for a second crack at the course.

6) Royal Troon

We played this golf course under unusually benign conditions, although it was our first round of the trip, so we really appreciated it!    After a somewhat slow start, the course really takes off towards the back of the front nine and has a tremendous finish.   The 11^th hole might be the toughest Par 4 I have ever played with out of bounds in play on every shot.    It’s only ten feet or so from the green to out of bounds!    The Postage Stamp 8^th was such a fun golf hole.    Any up-and-in on that hole should feel like a birdie. 

5) Prestwick

Without a doubt, Prestwick is the most unique golf course I have ever played.    It was thrilling to hit the tee shot on 1 while the commuters boarding the train watching.    Name me one golf course in the world that has a blind par-3 and a blind par-4 approach!    Some may argue that such features are unfair, but I beg to differ.   Everyone in our group from the highest handicapper to the scratch golfer loved this golf course.

4) Muirfield

Muirfield was perhaps the best test of golf that we played.    I loved the ingenious routing in which it seemed like we were never in the same wind direction more than twice.   It made me appreciate one of the benefits of returning nines (every other course we played but Kingsbarns was out-and-back) as it usually results in more varied wind direction.   It reminded me a lot of Shinnecock, in which you have brief glimpses of the water.    The Muirfield lunch is also the best lunch in all of golf!

3) North Berwick

North Berwick had the quirkiness of Prestwick with some amazing views of the water.    While its strange to hit a 6-iron on your opening tee shot, I really enjoyed the start and it never really let up until the 18^th hole.    The stretch from 13 through 15 was as good of a three-hole stretch as you’ll ever play.   The 13^th features a wall running along the left side of the hole which becomes more in play the more you avoid it.   Somehow, I bounced a hybrid over the wall but holding the green was impossible.    And, the 15^th is the original Redan hole!   The original Redan is not the best Redan (I gotta go with Shinny’s), it is the most deceptive as you don’t quite appreciate the hole’s slopes and dangers from the tee.   Finally, this might be the only golf course in the world that doesn’t have their own parking lot!   

2) Royal Dornoch

I can see why people think this is the best golf course in Scotland, and the best in the world.    I really liked how the gorse was concentrated and entirely on one side of the golf course, except for one hole.    If you are in the gorse, you deserve to re-hit!    While the Foxy hole is the most famous hole, I actually thought the 8^th and 16^th were better and both reminded me of RCD’s 9^th hole.   The golf course is a bit remote, but well worth the drive.

1) Turnberry (Alisa)

I have a new favorite golf course in the world, the Alisa course at Turnberry.    I kept comparing the course to Royal County Down as it was my prior favorite course, and I just thought that the back nine was stronger.    Its unfortunate that people’s views of this course will be shaped by the course’s owner, but one most look at this golf course entirely on its merits.   The 8,9, and 10 hole stretch might be the finest stretch in all of golf.  The fairways have plenty of width and the bunkers are not overly penal.    Turnberry has everything – spectacular setting, great shot values, and a fair test of golf.
 

[Peter Pallotta]

J -
Thanks very much for this.
I can't put my finger on exactly why, but yours is the the most enjoyable post-tour wrap-ups I've read here in a long time. It is also -- surprisingly, given its brevity -- among the most *informative* ones. You don't play word games with your preferences and you cut right to the chase with your assessments.
Very well done - and that's coming from someone who doesn't like lists!
Thanks again
Peter

[JWinick]

Peter,


Thank you for your kind words.   My opinions are always that - opinions, but I am a consultant by trade, so I'm not afraid to go against the grain.    I know Tom Doak thinks the Old Course is the greatest course in the world, and I respect his opinion, but it is not mine.


Best,


Jon

[BHoover]

Did you play any 9-hole courses?

[jeffwarne]

Great reviews. Really enjoyed your thoughts
Turnberry must be greatly improved.



Two nits
Shinny's Redan over NGLA?


and Goat Hill has 2 blind par 3's and 4 blind par 4 approaches(along with 4 blind tee shots)-in 9 holes!

[Sean_A]

J

Cheers.

Its interesting that you place Turnberry top of the heap while I have Turnberry near the bottom, just above TNC and Troon.  Mind you, I haven't seen the changes and in pix they look excellent.  Same for Castle Stuart....I think on balance, it is probably the one I would select as the best of these eleven....just pipping TOC and West Links.  While TOC has by far the most interesting land of these courses, I can never get past the similarities of the opening six holes, the dire 9th and lack of par 3s  (which if one or two came earlier in the round it would improve the rhythm of the course).  From a purely design perspective Castle Stuart impressed me a ton.  I also have Kingsbarns much higher than you.  It seems we see the modern courses very differently...that said, I didn't really fall for Kingsbarns....just appreciated its design merits.   

Ciao

[JWinick]

Perhaps, I was influenced by the US Open in which the 7th hole was practically unplayable, but my point was that it was not the best Redan, but the original.


That's a good topic - how many courses have multiple blind approaches?   It seems rare to me.   

Great reviews. Really enjoyed your thoughts
Turnberry must be greatly improved.



Two nits
Shinny's Redan over NGLA?


and Goat Hill has 2 blind par 3's and 4 blind par 4 approaches-in 9 holes!

[JWinick]

I liked the finish better at Castle Stuart, and thought the inland holes were better.    But, I didn't have one much higher ranked than the others.   Again, the problem with rankings.   

J

Cheers.

Its interesting that you place Turnberry top of the heap while I have Turnberry near the bottom, just above TNC and Troon.  Mind you, I haven't seen the changes and in pix they look excellent.  Same for Castle Stuart....I think on balance, it is probably the one I would select as the best of these eleven....just pipping TOC and West Links.  While TOC has by far the most interesting land of these courses, I can never get past the similarities of the opening six holes, the dire 9th and lack of par 3s  (which if one or two came earlier in the round it would improve the rhythm of the course).  From a purely design perspective Castle Stuart impressed me a ton.  I also have Kingsbarns much higher than you.  It seems we see the modern courses very differently...that said, I didn't really fall for Kingsbarns....just appreciated its design merits.   

Ciao

[James Brown]

We experienced 11 great golf courses over 7 magical days under great conditions (just 4 holes of rain!).    Because we had a larger group (8 golfers rather than 4 last year) than we had last year in Ireland, we decided to get a driver and van and were very pleased with the experience as all 8 of us could travel together. 

Since we all seem to like rankings, I will give you my rankings of the courses from least to best.   Please note that every single course was a great golf course.

11) New Course

We all thought this was a solid, albeit probably the least challenging course that we played.    I thought the par-3 9^th hole was a real stand-out, a long par 3 with out of bounds running along the rear and left of the hole with water in the background.

10) Carnoustie

Carnoustie was easily the most difficult course that we played.   I really enjoyed the strong finish (16-17-18 must be one of the best in tournament golf) and the challenge of the course.    I must say that the town was the least attractive (a bit of a dump) of the courses within a town that we played.   It was the most difficultly bunkered golf course I have ever played (more so than Oakmont), especially since the fairway bunkers were as steep (and sometimes steeper) than the greenside bunkers. 

9) Kingsbarns

Kingsbarns had some of the best views of any course I have played.     I really enjoyed the stretch of holes in which we cross the forest line.   It was definitely a modern course and was the least “natural” course we played.    While we enjoyed it a lot, we felt that Castle Stuart did modern better. 

  Castle Stuart

Castle Stuart is a fun, modern golf course with wide fairways and spectacular views.     The Par-3 4^th hole with the Castle in the background was as well framed a golf-hole that one could design.    The only drawback was the stretch of holes into the same wind direction was a bit of a bear coming back and showed how penal the course could be into a stiff breeze.    Overall, a lot of fun to play!

7) Old Course

Let the hating begin.    I am strictly reviewing the golf course, and trying not to get caught up in the hype and history.    The great holes of the Old Course meet expectations (both Par-5s, the Road Hole, and 18^th), but there are just a few indifferent holes in the front nine.    I loved the room on the golf course (very friendly to someone fighting a hook!) and the constant movement in the fairways.    There was nothing more exhilarating on my trip than ripping a 3-wood on the 1^st hole down the middle in front of hundreds of people.    One member of our foursome nearly holed out on 18 as well!   Note: two of us got out on the old course with about 30 minutes of lead time at around 4:30 for a second crack at the course.

6) Royal Troon

We played this golf course under unusually benign conditions, although it was our first round of the trip, so we really appreciated it!    After a somewhat slow start, the course really takes off towards the back of the front nine and has a tremendous finish.   The 11^th hole might be the toughest Par 4 I have ever played with out of bounds in play on every shot.    It’s only ten feet or so from the green to out of bounds!    The Postage Stamp 8^th was such a fun golf hole.    Any up-and-in on that hole should feel like a birdie. 

5) Prestwick

Without a doubt, Prestwick is the most unique golf course I have ever played.    It was thrilling to hit the tee shot on 1 while the commuters boarding the train watching.    Name me one golf course in the world that has a blind par-3 and a blind par-4 approach!    Some may argue that such features are unfair, but I beg to differ.   Everyone in our group from the highest handicapper to the scratch golfer loved this golf course.

4) Muirfield

Muirfield was perhaps the best test of golf that we played.    I loved the ingenious routing in which it seemed like we were never in the same wind direction more than twice.   It made me appreciate one of the benefits of returning nines (every other course we played but Kingsbarns was out-and-back) as it usually results in more varied wind direction.   It reminded me a lot of Shinnecock, in which you have brief glimpses of the water.    The Muirfield lunch is also the best lunch in all of golf!

3) North Berwick

North Berwick had the quirkiness of Prestwick with some amazing views of the water.    While its strange to hit a 6-iron on your opening tee shot, I really enjoyed the start and it never really let up until the 18^th hole.    The stretch from 13 through 15 was as good of a three-hole stretch as you’ll ever play.   The 13^th features a wall running along the left side of the hole which becomes more in play the more you avoid it.   Somehow, I bounced a hybrid over the wall but holding the green was impossible.    And, the 15^th is the original Redan hole!   The original Redan is not the best Redan (I gotta go with Shinny’s), it is the most deceptive as you don’t quite appreciate the hole’s slopes and dangers from the tee.   Finally, this might be the only golf course in the world that doesn’t have their own parking lot!   

2) Royal Dornoch

I can see why people think this is the best golf course in Scotland, and the best in the world.    I really liked how the gorse was concentrated and entirely on one side of the golf course, except for one hole.    If you are in the gorse, you deserve to re-hit!    While the Foxy hole is the most famous hole, I actually thought the 8^th and 16^th were better and both reminded me of RCD’s 9^th hole.   The golf course is a bit remote, but well worth the drive.

1) Turnberry (Alisa)

I have a new favorite golf course in the world, the Alisa course at Turnberry.    I kept comparing the course to Royal County Down as it was my prior favorite course, and I just thought that the back nine was stronger.    Its unfortunate that people’s views of this course will be shaped by the course’s owner, but one most look at this golf course entirely on its merits.   The 8,9, and 10 hole stretch might be the finest stretch in all of golf.  The fairways have plenty of width and the bunkers are not overly penal.    Turnberry has everything – spectacular setting, great shot values, and a fair test of golf.

Replayed the Old Course, but ranked it 7th, huh?


I can see the attraction. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Jon - I think part of the appeal of your recap for me is your wide-ranging tastes, which include a liking for:
long par 3s;
challenging tests;
scenic vistas and ocean views;
modern courses;
wide fairways;
well-framed golf holes;
tough par 4s;
fun;
blind and semi blind shots/approaches;
uniqueness;
returning nines;
shot values;
gorse; and
fairness


A most inclusive list indeed!
Good for you.

[JWinick]

Peter,


I have been critical of forcing returning nines on a routing and bemoan the lack of out-and-back routings in the US.   My main observation on the trip though was that returning nines do generally result in less brutal stretches into the wind.    I would say I am indifferent, except to say that as a members course, I see the benefit of returning nines.   


Best,
Jon

Jon - I think part of the appeal of your recap for me is your wide-ranging tastes, which include a liking for:
long par 3s;
challenging tests;
scenic vistas and ocean views;
modern courses;
wide fairways;
well-framed golf holes;
tough par 4s;
fun;
blind and semi blind shots/approaches;
uniqueness;
returning nines;
shot values;
gorse; and
fairness


A most inclusive list indeed!
Good for you.

[JWinick]

We played as a twosome on the Old Course and made it through 10 holes and it was my first 1/2 round on the Old Course.   It then proceeded to begin to thunder (this was the day we played Kingsbarns) and we had to take shelter.   We were told "it never thunders in Scotland."    So, for only the second time in ten years, they actually suspended play on the Old Course!   We waited for an hour.   My colleague didn't want to go in, but I had enough waiting and took a cart back.   He ended up playing 16, 17, and 18 as well.   

We experienced 11 great golf courses over 7 magical days under great conditions (just 4 holes of rain!).    Because we had a larger group (8 golfers rather than 4 last year) than we had last year in Ireland, we decided to get a driver and van and were very pleased with the experience as all 8 of us could travel together. 

Since we all seem to like rankings, I will give you my rankings of the courses from least to best.   Please note that every single course was a great golf course.

11) New Course

We all thought this was a solid, albeit probably the least challenging course that we played.    I thought the par-3 9^th hole was a real stand-out, a long par 3 with out of bounds running along the rear and left of the hole with water in the background.

10) Carnoustie

Carnoustie was easily the most difficult course that we played.   I really enjoyed the strong finish (16-17-18 must be one of the best in tournament golf) and the challenge of the course.    I must say that the town was the least attractive (a bit of a dump) of the courses within a town that we played.   It was the most difficultly bunkered golf course I have ever played (more so than Oakmont), especially since the fairway bunkers were as steep (and sometimes steeper) than the greenside bunkers. 

9) Kingsbarns

Kingsbarns had some of the best views of any course I have played.     I really enjoyed the stretch of holes in which we cross the forest line.   It was definitely a modern course and was the least “natural” course we played.    While we enjoyed it a lot, we felt that Castle Stuart did modern better. 

  Castle Stuart

Castle Stuart is a fun, modern golf course with wide fairways and spectacular views.     The Par-3 4^th hole with the Castle in the background was as well framed a golf-hole that one could design.    The only drawback was the stretch of holes into the same wind direction was a bit of a bear coming back and showed how penal the course could be into a stiff breeze.    Overall, a lot of fun to play!

7) Old Course

Let the hating begin.    I am strictly reviewing the golf course, and trying not to get caught up in the hype and history.    The great holes of the Old Course meet expectations (both Par-5s, the Road Hole, and 18^th), but there are just a few indifferent holes in the front nine.    I loved the room on the golf course (very friendly to someone fighting a hook!) and the constant movement in the fairways.    There was nothing more exhilarating on my trip than ripping a 3-wood on the 1^st hole down the middle in front of hundreds of people.    One member of our foursome nearly holed out on 18 as well!   Note: two of us got out on the old course with about 30 minutes of lead time at around 4:30 for a second crack at the course.

6) Royal Troon

We played this golf course under unusually benign conditions, although it was our first round of the trip, so we really appreciated it!    After a somewhat slow start, the course really takes off towards the back of the front nine and has a tremendous finish.   The 11^th hole might be the toughest Par 4 I have ever played with out of bounds in play on every shot.    It’s only ten feet or so from the green to out of bounds!    The Postage Stamp 8^th was such a fun golf hole.    Any up-and-in on that hole should feel like a birdie. 

5) Prestwick

Without a doubt, Prestwick is the most unique golf course I have ever played.    It was thrilling to hit the tee shot on 1 while the commuters boarding the train watching.    Name me one golf course in the world that has a blind par-3 and a blind par-4 approach!    Some may argue that such features are unfair, but I beg to differ.   Everyone in our group from the highest handicapper to the scratch golfer loved this golf course.

4) Muirfield

Muirfield was perhaps the best test of golf that we played.    I loved the ingenious routing in which it seemed like we were never in the same wind direction more than twice.   It made me appreciate one of the benefits of returning nines (every other course we played but Kingsbarns was out-and-back) as it usually results in more varied wind direction.   It reminded me a lot of Shinnecock, in which you have brief glimpses of the water.    The Muirfield lunch is also the best lunch in all of golf!

3) North Berwick

North Berwick had the quirkiness of Prestwick with some amazing views of the water.    While its strange to hit a 6-iron on your opening tee shot, I really enjoyed the start and it never really let up until the 18^th hole.    The stretch from 13 through 15 was as good of a three-hole stretch as you’ll ever play.   The 13^th features a wall running along the left side of the hole which becomes more in play the more you avoid it.   Somehow, I bounced a hybrid over the wall but holding the green was impossible.    And, the 15^th is the original Redan hole!   The original Redan is not the best Redan (I gotta go with Shinny’s), it is the most deceptive as you don’t quite appreciate the hole’s slopes and dangers from the tee.   Finally, this might be the only golf course in the world that doesn’t have their own parking lot!   

2) Royal Dornoch

I can see why people think this is the best golf course in Scotland, and the best in the world.    I really liked how the gorse was concentrated and entirely on one side of the golf course, except for one hole.    If you are in the gorse, you deserve to re-hit!    While the Foxy hole is the most famous hole, I actually thought the 8^th and 16^th were better and both reminded me of RCD’s 9^th hole.   The golf course is a bit remote, but well worth the drive.

1) Turnberry (Alisa)

I have a new favorite golf course in the world, the Alisa course at Turnberry.    I kept comparing the course to Royal County Down as it was my prior favorite course, and I just thought that the back nine was stronger.    Its unfortunate that people’s views of this course will be shaped by the course’s owner, but one most look at this golf course entirely on its merits.   The 8,9, and 10 hole stretch might be the finest stretch in all of golf.  The fairways have plenty of width and the bunkers are not overly penal.    Turnberry has everything – spectacular setting, great shot values, and a fair test of golf.

Replayed the Old Course, but ranked it 7th, huh?


I can see the attraction.

[Eric Smith]

Ailsa


 

[John Sabino]

Jon - thanks for the post and for sharing your thoughts. I am with you on the Old Course at St. Andrews and it is bold and honest of you to rank it where you did. The standard line of thinking is that if you don't like the Old Course you are an ill informed buffoon. The reality is that we all have our own tastes and preferences and I am with you as ranking it as in the lower end of my personal preferences. The attackers will tell you that you need to play it more (like 100 times) before you can really begin to appreciate it, not sure I buy that, each time I play it I scratch my head more and wonder whether the day wouldn't have been better spent elsewhere with such fine golf around. I would personally put Carnoustie and Kingsbarns above Troon and Muirfield. I think Carnoustie has one of the top five routings of any course in the world. Sounds like you had a great trip.


John

[Charles Lund]

Thanks for posting.

It's hard to consider a seven day first trip to Scotland that does not include most of the courses you mention.  I played all but Muirfield, Royal Troon, and Castle Stuart (which had just opened around the time of my first trip).  I played The Old Course, Kingsbarns, Royal Dornoch, and Turnberry twice, and 14 other courses once, in a four week trip.  I would consider the four I played twice as my favorites and I felt fortunate to have had the time for follow-up rounds at these courses.

I returned a couple of times for shorter periods and spent several days in Prestwick, replaying Turnberry and Western Gailes, along with a couple of other lower tier courses in that area.  I also spent a week in Dornoch on another trip and was fortunate to play Royal Dornoch three times, along with Brora and Golspie.   

I tend to go for longer periods and do return trips to places I like to visit.

I was curious what you might envision if you did a longer and more leisurely trip to Scotland of perhaps 14 to 21 days.  Based on what you saw and did as far as playing great courses on your trip, of what kind of golf and cultural experiences would you partake on a return trip?

Charles Lund

[Jon Wiggett]

Brian,


unfortunately very few doing such tours make time for visiting the clubs that are the very heart and soul of Scottish golf. Still, I could imagine that Jon will make room for a few in a future tour as he knows his stuff.


Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Is some of the lack of appreciation for TOC perhaps due to the equipment it's now being played with? I'd be interested in the thoughts of anyone who's played TOC with persimmons and blades recently.
Atb

[Andy Stamm]

Is some of the lack of appreciation for TOC perhaps due to the equipment it's now being played with? I'd be interested in the thoughts of anyone who's played TOC with persimmons and blades recently.
Atb

I would so no, not at all. I don't think the irons make much difference at all. Is the course harder with a persimmon and a 1 iron? Of course it is. With a persimmon, distance is certainly effected, but the biggest difference is mishits with the woods. The old course is great for that though as there's so much room. You're likely to find some new areas of the course, but to be honest, play there enough, and that'll happen anyway. I guess hitting a persimmon does encourage you to take an even safer line because bad swings go much further off line. And the safer line you take on the tee often makes it a lot tougher to get the next one close to the hole. The thing that changes play is the yardage you play. You can make the course longer with persimmons or with the tee. I guess if you're really a big hitter and don't have access to the back tees, playing a persimmon would do the trick. But to be honest, most of the shots are just as interesting as a short pitch as they are with a full shot. So it plays harder, but not really more interesting I'd say. That said reaching the 5th in two with a persimmon driver and 3 wood, and birdieing 13 with a 1 iron and 8 iron are much more satisfying. But the shots are the same, it's just the margin of error is smaller.

[Tom_Doak]

The problem with The Old Course is that tourists only get to play it from the middle tees [or even forward of that], and with only 2-3 of the holes tucked into the difficult parts of the greens.  The set-up there matters more than at almost any other course in the world.


You guys are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion correct 

[Peter Pallotta]

.. The set-up there matters more than at almost any other course in the world...

I wish someone had told me this before! I always thought it was the great strategy and *nuance* that took 50 plays to appreciate! Poor Scott Hoch - mocked for decades and only because he played the wrong tees! 

[Mark Bourgeois]

How come no Trump International?

[Andy Stamm]

The problem with The Old Course is that tourists only get to play it from the middle tees [or even forward of that], and with only 2-3 of the holes tucked into the difficult parts of the greens.  The set-up there matters more than at almost any other course in the world.


You guys are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion correct 

I agree 100%. Tourists can play any tee, but on a typical tourist day even the white's are pushed up a good bit. And of course the 'pro' tees are out of play except for very high level events and never available to the public or even the local clubs. The course is really something on a meeting day or especially a tournament day when it's closed to outside play. I think they do a good job of rotating in all of the good pins for daily play, but there's no question that it gets better and more interesting course the higher the number of good pins.


My point about persimmons was to reinforce that it's a great and interesting course almost regardless of tee or persimmons. Persimmons don't make it more interesting, they just make it harder. I guess a hole like 12 is much less interesting if you can easily drive over all but the last bunker, but for the most part more distance doesn't rob the course of its interest.

[JWinick]

Charles,


As was my trip to Ireland, I think it is a good idea to cover as much ground as you can reasonable handle on a first trip somewhere.   Obviously, on subsequent trips, you can really do things differently.    I am just finding out what I like and what I know.   A quick obvious comparison between Ireland and Scotland is Scotland golf is "clustered" better than Ireland.    For example, you have Prestwick and Troon adjacent to each other, and Muirfield and North Berwick are nearby, whereas I don't recall any spots in Ireland that offer you as strong of a cluster.   


If we had more time, we would avoid 36 holes on consecutive days, play certain courses more than once, and hit the northeast coast of Scotland.   We missed out on Cruden Bay, Aberdeen, Trump Aberdeen, etc., but we can hopefully get that next time.


I know I've gotten a lot of heat before on this site for my vigorous itineraries ("You didn't really see Ireland, etc.") and I find that so annoying.   Let the individual determine his own pace!   Some people, quite frankly, have more energy than others.    We are contemplating England next year, and we will probably stop and see more sites and play less golf.   

Thanks for posting.

It's hard to consider a seven day first trip to Scotland that does not include most of the courses you mention.  I played all but Muirfield, Royal Troon, and Castle Stuart (which had just opened around the time of my first trip).  I played The Old Course, Kingsbarns, Royal Dornoch, and Turnberry twice, and 14 other courses once, in a four week trip.  I would consider the four I played twice as my favorites and I felt fortunate to have had the time for follow-up rounds at these courses.

I returned a couple of times for shorter periods and spent several days in Prestwick, replaying Turnberry and Western Gailes, along with a couple of other lower tier courses in that area.  I also spent a week in Dornoch on another trip and was fortunate to play Royal Dornoch three times, along with Brora and Golspie.   

I tend to go for longer periods and do return trips to places I like to visit.

I was curious what you might envision if you did a longer and more leisurely trip to Scotland of perhaps 14 to 21 days.  Based on what you saw and did as far as playing great courses on your trip, of what kind of golf and cultural experiences would you partake on a return trip?

Charles Lund

[JWinick]

Tom,


I think the biggest problem with the Old Course is it is just too over-exposed.    Do we really need to see an Open Championship there every five years?   It's frankly nearly a joke for the Tour pros with multiple drivable par 4s, etc.   I guess the R & A is just too lazy to go out and use other courses for an Open Championship.   Two years ago was a prime example - the weather was absolutely horrid (balls were blowing off the green) and the winner was still 15 under!   


Let's discontinue the Old Course for the Dunhill and go there once a decade - so it is a special experience.   


I still find it hard to believe (and I have all of your books btw and love them!) that you all gave TOC a perfect 10 out of like 3-5 courses in the UK.


Best,
Jon

The problem with The Old Course is that tourists only get to play it from the middle tees [or even forward of that], and with only 2-3 of the holes tucked into the difficult parts of the greens.  The set-up there matters more than at almost any other course in the world.


You guys are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion correct 

[JWinick]

Just too hard to do all of that over 7 days.   What do you leave out then?

How come no Trump International?