Any Golf Worth Playing in Puerta Vallarta

[David Wigler]

I tried to fight the good fight but ultimately lost and our November vaction is not an architectural hotbed like Los Cabos or Hawaii but is Puerta Vallarta.  Should I bring my clubs?  Is there anything worth playing?  As an aside, are their any restaraunts that I do not want to miss?  Any other GCAers going to be there just before Thanksgiving?

[JakaB]

I played golf there once and found it a strange combination of resort golf and resort golf....

[David Wigler]

Barney,

Not all resort golf is bad.  Repeat it with me, Not all resort golf is bad.  Cabo Del Sol Ocean is a wonderful resort course.  So is Kapalua Plantation.  Ditto for Pacific Dunes and Kiawah Island Ocean.  What about Cuscowilla?

On the other hand, there are numerous garbage resort courses that charge huge green fees because they figure you are too lazy to get into a car.  

Is there anything worth playing in Puerta Vallarta?

[cary lichtenstein]

Try this linK;

www.travelgolfmexico.com/puerto-vallarta.htm

[henrye]

David, I was there a few years back over the Xmas holidays.  I've played in Cabo and Hawaii (Maui, Lanai, Hawaii).  Golf in Puerto Vallarta is pretty good.  You should take your clubs.  The Vista Vallarta Club was the best when I was there - 2 modern 18's set back in the hills.  Fairly wide open fairways - standard championship courses.  One course is a Nicklaus, the other a Weiskopf.

There is a fun 18 called the Marina Vallarta Club - not a bad track, but nothing special (better than Kaanapali).  I remember water hazards, one ocean hole, but with a fence between the beach and course, and few large Gators/Crocs.  Don't fetch the ball if it enters a hazzard.  I played the course a few times because of the company I was with.  We enjoyed every round.

Punta Mita at the Four Seasons is also there.  I played it once and was not very impressed.  There were a few breathtaking views of the ocean, but the couse itself (a Nicklaus) is flat and not very interesting.  My son enjoyed hitting to the island green out in the ocean, but that was the highlight.

There were also a few new courses under construction - one by Robert Von-Hagge, which were not complete when I was there.

If you are willing to drive a few hours - OK, maybe 3 hours, then Isla Navidad is a must.  Just so you understand my golfing tastes, in Cabo, I was impressed most with Cabo Del Sol and in Hawaii, the Challenge at Manele Bay.  In my view, Isla Navidad is as good.

[Lou_Duran]

I believe that Club Corp has a nice course down there built by Nicklaus and part of their fractional ownership program (like Barton Creek in Austin).  You may wish to access CCA's website.  As I recall, an owner in this plan actually receives a deed for a 1/13 fee-simple interest in a very nice, fully furnished house which entitles the owner to four weeks a year at any of the half a dozen or so participating properties, plus a non-resident membership to CCA's entire portfolio of country clubs, some resorts, and various city clubs.  It is an interesting concept, with more security than timeshares.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Henry, Please tell me more about Ilsa Navidad. My gf who I am sure will dump me soon, is getting a job representing a luxury resort there. So I will be putting a few weekends in there this winter predump.

[Scott_Burroughs]

John,

You sound like Jeff Goldblum's character (Ian Malcolm) in Jurassic Park, who said he was "always looking out for the next ex-Mrs. Malcolm."

LSU looking pretty good so far.

[henrye]

Tiger, I stayed there maybe 4 or 5 years ago.  The resort - The Grand Bay Hotel - was brand new.  The golf course couldn't have been more than a few years old.  The setting is what makes it so wonderful - like Cabo Del Sol and Manele Bay.  There are 3 nines and all are strong.  The Ocean and mountain nines play on the ocean and have the spectacular scenery.  The lagoon nine, while not on the ocean, was the best - demanding well placed shots with challenging water hazzards.

The resort and courses are quite isolated.  I arrived from Manzanillo airport - 1 hour to the south by car.  The area is very quiet, but a number of new "exclusive" little resorts were open or were in the planning stages.  There was another course just up the road, called Tamarindo, which someone else here may have played.  I never got there, but my friends did, and claimed it was as good as Isla Navidad.  At the time Tamarindo only allowed 40 golfers to play each day.  It is also located on the ocean.  I think that both places have web sites, although I haven't checked in a few years.

I think what's important to note here is that these places are still undiscovered by and large and will continue to be.  The resorts are not big, highly marketed places (Grand Bay is the biggest - its a Windham Resort).  The area is not built up and so you won't find a mass of tourist golfers heading there - like you do in Hawaii and Cabo.

For Lou - Club Corp. own the Marina Vallarta Course, which is the weakest in Puerto Vallarta.  I'm a Club Corp. member and lets just say, I'm glad I'm not a fractional owner there.  Club Corp. is affilaited with Vista Vallarta though, and those courses were strong.  The World Cup was played there 2 years ago.

[Andy Hodson]

David
Went to PV for honeymoon three years ago, before the Nicklaus and Weiskopf courses were opened. But I've heard good things about them.

As for restaurants, PV has some very good ones. I recommend La Palapa (great seating on the beach), Bombos (maybe my favorite...I think because of the hillside setting), Cafe des Artistes (a little high priced for the food I thought, but very good none the less). And for a wonderful setting for breakfast, travel down to Mismaloya beach to John Huston's Restaurant. Wonderful spot.

enjoy

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Well guys if one is not signing any long term contracts then the odds are you will be dumped in short order after 3 to 6 months. lol Actually Grand Bay is the resort she will sell for. It does appear nice but I have not been ther eyet. she will also have Twin Peaks in Telluride, Colorado if anyone knows about the course(s) there.

[Bill_McBride]

I played one hungover round there years ago and there wasn't much going on.  This was at the Princess.  Actually, come to think of it that was in Acapulco.  So forget this.  I don't think Mexican resorts and golf go together.  Sun and too many margaritas are a lot more in line with expectations of a Mexican beach resort.  

[Lou_Duran]

Bill, at least you were on the same coast.  Except for Los Cabos, Mexican golf has been generally disappointing.  I think that the travel media is desireous of having Mexico golf succeed for obvious reasons.

[David Wigler]

Thank you all for the advice.  It looks like the clubs are worth bringing and two or three rounds may be in order!

[THuckaby2]

Bringing this up from way back when... it's now my turn to go to Puerto Vallarta, next month.  Seems like I know which courses to play - I'm gonna have time for one round for sure, another round maybe, and based on emails with Dave W. after his trip, it's gonna go in this order of priority:

1. Vista Vallarta Nicklaus
2. Vista Vallarta Weiskopf
3. El Tigre

TIME is a very key issue for me... We'll be staying in the Nuevo Vallarata area, travel to and from courses will be by cab, and getting the rounds in QUICKLY will be paramount for purposes of matrimonial harmony.  So that rules out the courses far away...

Another question for PV veterans though:  I found a site where I can book in advance, and get a 10% discount over what they say are the rates.  Then I go on the course websites and see different rates (higher still) published.  It seems to me green fees are negotiable at these places - true?  And from previous trips to Cabo, I recall being accosted by all sorts of people offering deals for drastic discounts on green fees...

I don't want to pay too much for this... so how best to handle?  Book through the web site in advance?  Deal with the sheisters down there?  Not sweat it?

Any help or further input, I'd love to have.

BTW, resort golf is absolutely fine by me.  I'm gonna be playing with my bro-in-law, and he doesn't know a redan from a sedan but is so fun to play with, the venue really doesn't matter that much.  We're gonna want to play as fast or as slow as we feel like that morning, drink or not based on same how we feel issue, etc.  So quality of golf is sorta important - I don't want to play a truly bad course - but not all that paramount.  In fact the more waterfalls and eye candy, the better both of us will feel about spending this money and pissing off our wives.   Make sense?

Thanks!

TH

[McCloskey]

Henry
I read your post regarding Punta Mita, and quite frankly, I was amazed that you disliked it so.   Did you play poorly that day? lol
I am agreement with you on the Club Corp courses down there, the Weiskoph and Nicklaus are pretty good.   But to imply that the Marina Vallarta course is better than Punta Mita is just out of the realm of reason.   Punta Mita is what it is, a very nice "resort" golf course.  The 4 Season Hotel is outstanding also.
So when you indirectly made that comparison, I discounted your taste, and you confirmed it by saying that Isla Navidad was comparable to Cabo del Sol .  Again, not even in the same league, imo.

David,
If you are looking for a nice resort experience, Punta Mita worth the drive north about 45 minutes.
As for eateries, if you like a lot of beef, try the Argentine restaurant in downtown PV.
Enjoy

[THuckaby2]

McCloskey:

Thanks for the info.  Note however that David W. has already come and gone (and I believe gone back) to PV since this initial post - I just dug this out of archives rather than starting a whole new thread.

So all of this is duly noted...

But some further questions, if you don't mind:  is it worth taking a 45 minute cab ride, adding that to the time, not to mention the expense, to play Punta Mita? (I won't have a rental car).  That is, is it THAT much better than the much closer in three courses that I mentioned?  Is it worth suffering matrimonial hassle for?

Oh I'll do it if it's worth it... But one island hole in the ocean, while looking very cool, isn't enough, at this point.

Also - any take on how best to handle arrangements and payment?

TH

[ForkaB]

Tom

Give the sprogs and the long suffering wife a break!

Priorities:

1.  Beach
2.  Pool
3.  Pina Coladas
4.  Mariachi bands
5.  Beach
6.  Buying overpriced jewelry form the guys who walk along the beach
7.  Paragliding
8.  Eating
9.  Dreaming about golf
10. Going to the mall

I spent 2 Christmases at Nuevo Vallarta and never even thought about playing golf (well, I dreamed a bit, see #9 above....).  If you just have to do it, play the new Von Hagge course at Paradise Village and let us know how it turned out.

[THuckaby2]

Rich:

Sage counsel as always - IN GENERAL.  But you need to know the specifics before advising.  This trip is SANS SPROGS, going with two of my favorite people on the planet, my sister and her husband.  The wives actually LIKE the two of us boys getting out for a round or two, if only to give them time to shop unecumbered by complaining husbands.  So this is all copacetic... But of course one can't push it too far, thus the time and cost concerns - these are the matrimonial issues.  We've done several trips together to several places (including Cabo twice) and this formula works well.

My priorities for this trip aren't that far different from what you list - golf is about #9 - although I likely have eating and drinking higher than you list also, and substitute snorkeling or jet-ski riding for the parasailing.  Golf does actually get played, not dreamed about though - to the pleasure and happiness of all parties involved.

The new Von Hagge course is the El Tigre I reference above.  Dave W. liked it.  It's just a little further away than the ones at Vista Vallarta, thus the #3 ranking.

TH

[McCloskey]

Huck
I am not sure what you are looking for in your golf experience.  The Club Corp course you mentioned are closer, but not really that close to Nuevo Vallarta, as I remember.   In fact, I don't think from NV that you are more than 25-30 minutes to PM.  Whereas, the CC course, which are both very nice, are probably at least 20 minutes from NV.  They are both inland, whereas the PM course is directly on the ocean.  There is also more than just one hole on the ocean.  In fact, there are six that "touch" the ocean and the views are terrific.
I think a lunch at the 4 seasons hotel would be a nice touch for you and your wife.  If you can stay there, that is even better.  The beach at the club is very isolated and in a quiet cove.
The golf is pure "resort".   Lots of room to play and usually in pretty good condition.  From a visual standpoint, PM would be my choice.   From a more challenging golf standpoint, either of the CC courses would probably do.  I am not familiar with the El Tigre course.
I would think you could contact PM on the internet and get input on the cost of golf etc.   You used to have to stay at the 4 seasons to get on, but I don't think they have that restriction any longer.   In the summer, I don't you have to be concerned with a croweded course, and you could play at your own speed and enjoy the day.
Enjoy

[THuckaby2]

McCloskey:

This is great stuff, much appreciated.  OK, I need to get a much better handle on exactly where things are -that is, where we are staying and where the courses are.  If Punta Mita is a wash distance-wise, or a even a little further, than hell yes we'll go there - my bro-in-law will enjoy ocean-front holes for sure, and I do want to see that one island hole.  

I just had the impression that the two VV courses were right there, 2 minutes from where we are staying... I'll nail this all down and then decide accordingly.

BTW, we try to do these trips relatively on the cheap - thus the July dates (definitely off-season, rather hot down there) and the package deals we do.  So we won't be staying at the Four Seasons, though damn that would be nice!  We have become quite enamored with "all-inclusive" resorts - that is, all food and drinks included in the price - we did that at Cabo and really enjoyed it.  It is fun being a glutton for a week and having it all pre-paid.  

So we are staying at a place called the "RIU-Jalisco", which got pretty good reviews and recommendations.

I'll nail down exactly where that is, and then be able to decide these things better.

Thanks!

TH

[David Wigler]

Huckster,

I am still too busy to be on GCA but for you a quick reply.  Knowing what I have heard about your Bro-in-law, skip Punta Minta.  It will be a lot of money plus the cab ride for golf that is on par or marginally better than Nicklaus and Wieskopf.  Jack and Tom are a 15-minute cab ride that will cost less than $10.  If you do not mind sitting through 90-minute time-share presentations, than all your golf can be free. If you are like me and would rather have leeches crawl all over your flesh than hear about time-shares, than the 10% off deals work.  On top of that, your b-i-l's favorite course will be El Tigre, from what you have written about him and you could walk to it.  

PS - Go to the Brazil steakhouse in Nueva Vallarta.  It is awesome.  Last month, I was at the one in Los Cabos and ended up dinning next to Dan Patrick.  It is the best beef in Mexico and extremely reasonable (Less than $20 per person before booze).  

[THuckaby2]

David:

Many thanks for the update.  I know how busy you are, so didn't want to trouble you directly.. but I do very much appreciate the low-down.

You have my B-I-L nailed, and I am with you re time-share presentations.  I kinda figured that's what would be involved with the "cheap golf" deals and oh yes, life - and particularly this vacation - is too short to hassle that to save a few bucks!

El Tigre looks cool and the way you described it to me before, that sounds like a hell of a choice.  We are staying in Nuevo Vallarta area.

That steak-house is a given, even with the all-inclusive deal we have.  We do tend to like to have one night out on these things - it's just fun - and that's gonna be the choice.  Having dined with us in Vegas, you know how important food is on trips for us!

Thanks again, my friend.

TH

[Raymond]

Tom,

I played Punta Mita a few years back and really enjoyed it. A verey good Niclaus course but not quite as good as Cabo del Sol or The Challenge at Manele.The bonus however is that there is a wonderful public beach down in that area that my wife loved. They had great loung chairs, cabanas, and young males servers that brought Margaritas on demand. There were also some nice restaurants.  My wife gave me permission to play there as often as I liked. The price however prohibited me from playing too often.

[THuckaby2]

Raymond:

Muchas gracias.  Darn it, Punta Mita does look intriguing, and with the beach we sure could make a day of it. But I just checked the price and well... it seems to be a LOT more than the others.  Methinks we're gonna go lower cost this trip.  But it does sound interesting.

TH

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