[Tom_Doak]

Since so many seem to agree that modern courses have too many bunkers, what are some of the more subtle ways an architect can test a tee shot?


Three that come to mind:


1) Reverse camber to the fairway, though it is dependent on defining the edges of the fairway appropriately;


2) enough contour in the landing area that it behooves the player to aim for a flat spot on one side, a la the 8th at Crystal Downs;


3) the subtle ridge on the 5th at Yarra Yarra that steers a ball played close to the right hand fairway bunker further right, while pushing safer tee shots further left, leaving a much more intimidating approach.


What else have you got?

[jeffwarne]

A reasonably(or not) wide open fairway, but with a green that tilts severely right or left, inviting the smarter more accurate player to set up an easier approach by driving to a preferred side, and the less "enlightened" (my new go to) player to whine it's an unfair hole after his poorly placed tee shot sets up an awkward aproach

[John Kirk]

4.  Forward camber?  A tilted fairway, whether "reverse" or not, encourages the player to play away from the intended target.

[Joe Schackman]

Tee box that doesn't point down the middle of the fairway?

[Niall C]

Tom


Not sure whether the following two examples fit exactly into any of your example types but holes like Foxy where a shot up the left misses the moggles and therefore gets a good bit more run (only part of the hole I like).


The other example is the 7th medal tee at Silloth where the tee is offset to the left. You basically aim out to a ridge coming in from the opposite side of the fairway. The more aggressive line you take with the tee shot the more you kick left and up the line of play. On the other hand a conservative line will likely see you land on the right of the ridge which will kick your ball right and 90 degrees to the line of play. Due to the green being slightly off-set to the right, you are also likely to have to play over the rough with the approach. One of the best drives in golf in my admittedly limited experience.


Niall

[Niall C]

Tee box that doesn't point down the middle of the fairway?

Joe


One of my pet hates I have to admit. A pox on any architect who does it deliberately 


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

4.  Forward camber?  A tilted fairway, whether "reverse" or not, encourages the player to play away from the intended target.

Do you mean they're playing away from the intended target to allow for a fade or draw on the approach, because of the sidehill lie?  Or do you just mean playing toward the high side of a fairway so the ball will come back down to the middle?


I like the reverse camber even better because it allows the player a chance to counteract the slope with the shape of the tee shot.  If you're playing up into the bank, trajectory has less effect.

[Joe Schackman]

Tee box that doesn't point down the middle of the fairway?

Joe


One of my pet hates I have to admit. A pox on any architect who does it deliberately 


Niall

Ha. I did not say I was a fan! But it is subtle.

[Tom_Doak]

Tee box that doesn't point down the middle of the fairway?

Joe:


Like Niall, I'm not a fan of this, either.  Indeed I am not a fan of rectangular tees that "point" anywhere.


In my life I've never heard of or read about an architect who deliberately angled a tee to deceive the golfer.  There are lots of them about, but all are either a) built on a severe side slope where it's hard to align to the fairway, or b) a construction or maintenance mistake.  Mowing lines do change over time, just through carelessness.

[John Kirk]

4.  Forward camber?  A tilted fairway, whether "reverse" or not, encourages the player to play away from the intended target.

Do you mean they're playing away from the intended target to allow for a fade or draw on the approach, because of the sidehill lie?  Or do you just mean playing toward the high side of a fairway so the ball will come back down to the middle?


I like the reverse camber even better because it allows the player a chance to counteract the slope with the shape of the tee shot.  If you're playing up into the bank, trajectory has less effect.

I like the reverse camber shot better, too.  But the opening post asked for ways the shots can be interesting without bunkers.  I was thinking about the tee shot, playing to the high side, but you're right that it can have other consequences.  I don't think you want to have many holes with a big banking side slope.

[Jason Topp]

I love speed slots for tee shots, one of the best examples is the hill you can catch on the left side of the fairway on 16 at Sand Hills. 


I have discussed before the flat spots at Waveland in Des Moines. 


Unlike the orthodoxy here, I do like a tree that requires you to start the ball on one direction or another.  Because I hook the ball, I hardly notice them on the left but really am challenged when they are on the right. 


The downside to these features is that they are not easily decipherable in one round of golf and do not really come out in photographs.  They must be learned over multiple encounters.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tom -
At The Mines, there is a ridge/rise running across the fairway from left to right, at an angle: the carry over the left side of the ridge is shorter, the carry over the other side (the preferred line) gets progressively longer the further right you go.  It's simple but effective: one time I went left and easily carried the ridge but didn't have much of a shot into the green; the next time I played I went right but didn't hit a good drive and failed to carry the ridge, so I had an uphill, semi-blind shot left.


At a local course, there's a deceptive tee shot that I don't like all that much (because I'm not good with visual confusion) but that I have to admit is effective and fair/playable: a kind of cape style hole except that you are (or seem to be) lining up at exactly a 90 degree angle to the fairway; the drive is over broken ground and marsh to a landing area that seems to stretch 'east to west' almost endlessly, but that seems to be only 10 yards wide 'north to south'. In truth, it doesn't stretch nearly that far (east to west) and is some 30+ yards wide (north to south).  The tee shot gives our group fits every time, and terrible tee shots/flubs/topped shots often result -- but if you manage to put aside the visual confusion and just put a good easy swing on it with anything from a 4 iron to a driver, you find yourself always in the fairway.       

[Carl Nichols]

Downhill tee shots with plateaus that form flatter lies, making the player choose between (1) a shorter second shot off a downhill lie vs (2) a longer second off a flat lie.

[Niall C]

Carl


What you are describing is basically the first at NB without the slope. The basic decision is better lie versus closer to target.


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

I love speed slots for tee shots, one of the best examples is the hill you can catch on the left side of the fairway on 16 at Sand Hills. 
...
The downside to these features is that they are not easily decipherable in one round of golf and do not really come out in photographs.  They must be learned over multiple encounters.

I forgot about speed slots.  I've only rarely seen it, but I love when the short hitter gets a speed slot that enables him to close the gap on the long hitter, instead of the long hitter getting to press his advantage even further.  There are a couple at Royal Portrush ... I'm not sure how the hole numbers have changed.  I tried to do the same on the 7th hole at Rock Creek.


P.S.  That these things must be learned over time is NOT a downside.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom -
At The Mines, there is a ridge/rise running across the fairway from left to right, at an angle: the carry over the left side of the ridge is shorter, the carry over the other side (the preferred line) gets progressively longer the further right you go.       

One of my favorites is the ridge on the tee shot is the 4th hole at Bandon Trails.  It's a big ridge, and not very subtle ... if you try to bite off too much, you've got a blind second shot, and if you don't hit a fade to the reverse-camber side, your drive tends to kick straight left.  It's almost the opposite of a speed slot, really.

[Thomas Dai]

Extreme width with just about nothing in sight - the "Where the hell do I aim?" factor - especially with something like this on the end - and if the person on the tee happens to hit one way left or way right it's pretty easy to find -



atb

[Kalen Braley]

The smart ass in me says ponds....lots and lots of ponds! 


For a serious answer, one of the more interesting tactics I've seen at a course here in Utah is, the landing areas are generally flat for short to medium short hitters.  But once you get past 250+ yards, the designer put in heaving and rumpling ground features so the longer hitter would have a shorter shot, but a much higher chance that it would be on a sidehill/downhill/uphill kind of lie.  But at the same time, they could also get a great kick in just the right spot on a downslope of one of the moguls and have a wedge approach.

[Carl Rogers]

Tom, If you have forgot Riverfront is an example of almost every hole has some element of this.

The 15th hole is a good example. This is one of the picture post card holes at Riverfront in which the player may be distracted from the strategy. 

The player can play the tee shot down the right side of the hole and get a clear open shot to the green, but the lie maybe uphill, downhill or hanging.  The approach shot is always slightly blind because of the rolling terrain.

The tee shot down the left affords a level stance, but the approach shot requires a carry over a large difficult greenside bunker to the green that tends to run way toward the wetland.

[John Mayhugh]

You would be my hero if you built something like the 14th at Pasatiempo. 

Perhaps not as subtle as you were looking for, but I really like that tee shot.

[Joe Zucker]

When I played Dormie, I noticed that the tee markers on a few holes were not on level lies.  I mentioned it to the locals I was paired up with and they said that was intentional.  Coore and Crenshaw built some of the tees with a slight cant to help the player shape a ball in the direction called for by the hole.


I have absolutely no idea if this is true, but it would be a subtle way to help the golfer play the hole in a better way.

[Ira Fishman]

One of the better holes on our course is a short Par 4 with a semi-blind uphill tee shot.  There is a hollow on the right side of the fairway that makes the left side/center a better line, but that line is more uphill so psychologically one tends to drift right (or in my case hit dead pulls left).


Does the prevailing wind off the sea at Ballybunion Number 11 count as a subtle design feature?


And of course to re-raise a long debated topic:  how about the tree on number 4 at Mid Pines?

[Jason Topp]

P.S.  That these things must be learned over time is NOT a downside.

I heartily agree from the standpoint of a quality golf course.  I do think that such features get overlooked when one is attempting to advertise a course or is doing a hit and run tour of golf courses.  I have grown to prefer a golf trip with multiple rounds over a great course to an attempt to play all of the courses in an area.

[Sean_A]

Some of the best subtle tee shots I have come across are at Cleeve Cloud. The 5th readily comes to mind. The general slope of the fairway is right with gorse on the left. The fairway is not blatantly shaped to catch the drive on a good line, but the subtle shaping does just this.

One of my favorite subtle drives is to allow the green to be seen from the tee, but the direct line will rarely yield the best angle of attack. This describes Cleeve Cloud's 7th very well. It is also why I don't like the back tee, the temptation is removed when the green can't be seen.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

How about a hogsback like at OM

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