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David Davis

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GCA Lifecycle
« on: April 16, 2017, 08:18:17 AM »
In-between hunting for Easter Eggs and Brunch the Birkdale thread has me wondering if there is there such thing as a lifecycle for GCA? To some extent I have to believe there must be. Would this be similar for most people interested in the topic and relate perhaps to some kind of learning curve and perhaps change with time as one ages and matures, sees more courses, studies, reads etc. Taking this a step further is it possible to reasonably map this out then identify where someone finds oneself at any one point along this lifecycle. Finally would people on the upper end of this cycle converge into a place of general acceptability and congruence of opinion and appreciation. Any guesses as to what this cycle would look like?


Interested in your thoughts. (Happy Easter!)













Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

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RJ_Daley

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2017, 11:18:54 AM »
I think the cycle goes something like this with jumping on or off places along the way:

Finding the game

Enjoying the game with growing awareness to the ground it is played upon, and how that changes the approach to playing the game.

Discovering there are differing philosophies as to how that ground is arranged vis-a-vis constructing or finding a golfing course.

Becoming enthusiastic about the differences and who makes those differences.

Discovering what features are designed and which you like and dislike.

Discovering that the maintenance regimes also have great effect upon the deigns you like.

Actually studying these people that design, and the history behind the evolution of design ideas.

Getting so infatuated, you begin to think you should become involved in creating a field of play based on your sensibilities. 

Going broke or finding success in pursuit of you GCA interet, becoming obsessed and finding an outlet like GCA.com, or just losing interest somewhere along this GCA life cycle.

Your mileage may vary.... ::) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

BHoover

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 11:25:08 AM »
I have found that my own interest has shifted to just wanting to play golf rather than focus on architecture. If I happen to think about architecture during a round of golf, then great. But I'm more focused and interested on playing the game at this point.

David Davis

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 12:21:00 PM »
I think the cycle goes something like this with jumping on or off places along the way:

Finding the game

Enjoying the game with growing awareness to the ground it is played upon, and how that changes the approach to playing the game.

Discovering there are differing philosophies as to how that ground is arranged vis-a-vis constructing or finding a golfing course.

Becoming enthusiastic about the differences and who makes those differences.

Discovering what features are designed and which you like and dislike.

Discovering that the maintenance regimes also have great effect upon the deigns you like.

Actually studying these people that design, and the history behind the evolution of design ideas.

Getting so infatuated, you begin to think you should become involved in creating a field of play based on your sensibilities. 

Going broke or finding success in pursuit of you GCA interet, becoming obsessed and finding an outlet like GCA.com, or just losing interest somewhere along this GCA life cycle.

Your mileage may vary.... ::) ;D 8)


RJ, while rather humorous I think that's a pretty thoughtful post and definitely one way to view it all.


I must be at the go broke stage but that can probably happen anywhere along the rest of cycle I'd imagine.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

David Davis

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 12:23:25 PM »
I have found that my own interest has shifted to just wanting to play golf rather than focus on architecture. If I happen to think about architecture during a round of golf, then great. But I'm more focused and interested on playing the game at this point.


Temporary denial Brain. Must be because winter is just ending and you are dying to get out there and chase the little white ball around. This is what happens to all of us when time, weather, family, circumstances etc limit our fix of necessary rounds.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 12:36:48 PM »
I have found that my own interest has shifted to just wanting to play golf rather than focus on architecture. If I happen to think about architecture during a round of golf, then great. But I'm more focused and interested on playing the game at this point.


Temporary denial Brain. Must be because winter is just ending and you are dying to get out there and chase the little white ball around. This is what happens to all of us when time, weather, family, circumstances etc limit our fix of necessary rounds.


It's not temporary denial. I prefer to play golf. If it's on a great course, then all the better. But I'll play golf on a course that has little architectural significance if it means I can play golf. I also like to focus on the game/match rather than the architecture.


Brian

David Davis

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 12:41:25 PM »
I have found that my own interest has shifted to just wanting to play golf rather than focus on architecture. If I happen to think about architecture during a round of golf, then great. But I'm more focused and interested on playing the game at this point.


Temporary denial Brain. Must be because winter is just ending and you are dying to get out there and chase the little white ball around. This is what happens to all of us when time, weather, family, circumstances etc limit our fix of necessary rounds.


It's not temporary denial. I prefer to play golf. If it's on a great course, then all the better. But I'll play golf on a course that has little architectural significance if it means I can play golf. I also like to focus on the game/match rather than the architecture.


Brian


I guess my comment came across wrong. Sorry about that. I too prefer to play golf first and foremost and love to always have a match or even participate in a medal. I'm grateful to be able to do that on a lot of new and high quality courses but if that wasn't possible all of a sudden I promise you that I would be more than content to play fun matches on just about any course and as for practice which I also love I could easily do that in a go fetch it yourself Scottish field and be happy for hours day in and day out.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Rich Goodale

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 12:47:24 PM »
Keef Richards (channeling Buddy Holly) said it the best:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1PyNZJ84LY
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Thomas Dai

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 02:30:49 PM »
The GCA equivalent of 'gaga, lager, aga, saga, gaga'!
Atb

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 03:37:15 PM »

Well, for this architect the cycle was:


First round of golf, age 12 (Medina CC). Fell in love with the course, went home, told my folks I was going to be a gca. (Was asked once if I had to choose one, did I love golf or designing golf courses more. No question, designing golf courses.)


Did what I had to do in school to learn and get first job when I graduate.  Apprentice 7 years, keep learning until I can't learn any more from them, start my own firm.


Basically, kept learning (why do you think they call me a practicing golf course architect?) and doing on my own.


Keep learning and doing until I can't learn or do anymore.


Hopefully, die on a tractor out on some construction site.  Spread my ashes where I fell. :)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter Pallotta

Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 10:06:36 PM »
David - to the last part of your question, I think folks at the end of the cycle are as different as they were at the beginning. Tom Paul landed on a nearly all-embracing Big World Theory, while Tom D remains as picky and pig-headed as ever! Sean Arble is now determinedly all about value-for-the-money, while John K is focused on golfing with buddies new and old. Meanwhile, my friend JC wants nothing but access to only the finest and most exclusive privates around, while my friend George P has lovingly embraced his inner muni. In other words, the journey, it seems to me, leads one back to oneself..and so leads us collectively to our many differences.
Peter
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 10:08:34 PM by Peter Pallotta »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 10:31:38 PM »
Even the finest steak tartar needs to be put on the grill after one too many sittings.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 11:38:37 AM »
It's been 9 years since I had to give up the game. I was a frequent poster here on GCA, looking a couple of times a day. Now, probably once or twice a week. I still enjoy the site at 73 years of age, but I'm at the 16 hole of life cycle, don't know whether i'm teeing off or putting  ;D
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

George Pazin

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 01:37:09 PM »
It's been 9 years since I had to give up the game. I was a frequent poster here on GCA, looking a couple of times a day. Now, probably once or twice a week. I still enjoy the site at 73 years of age, but I'm at the 16 hole of life cycle, don't know whether i'm teeing off or putting  ;D


But are you still painting?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

David Davis

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 04:18:26 AM »
It's been 9 years since I had to give up the game. I was a frequent poster here on GCA, looking a couple of times a day. Now, probably once or twice a week. I still enjoy the site at 73 years of age, but I'm at the 16 hole of life cycle, don't know whether i'm teeing off or putting  ;D


Cary, you have a wealth of experience and knowledge and while I don't know your entire story when I read one of your posts they are clearly full of wisdom. I imagine while tough you were content to give up the game when you did and have received a lifetime of joy from it. That's as good a way to go out as I can think of. My guess is you are putting and probably damn good at it. Thanks for continuing to enrich our board and impart some of that knowledge upon us.



Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 04:22:48 AM »
Hopefully, die on a tractor out on some construction site.  Spread my ashes where I fell. :)


Jeff,


That would be a good way to go and end the cycle. Finish it off doing what you love.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Mac Plumart

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 06:49:04 PM »
Who knows how each individual changes over time?


I just want to play with friends.  The "better" the course architecturally, the more happy everyone will be...even if they have no idea why they are happy or even if they have no clue what good architecture is. 


The reason is because good architecture will eliminate all the frustrations of playing...lost balls on decent shots, hitting trees when you were just off the mark.  But then offering fun recovery shots.


And when you put you tee in the ground, you look out at the fairway and have to think about that to do...rather than just hit it straight.  Maybe left side, maybe right side...maybe driver, maybe 3 iron.  Lay up on the approach, go for it? 


All these things make the round enjoyable...regardless of whether you realize why.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Kirk

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2017, 11:31:30 AM »
Bump.  I'm late to the party.  Here's my experience:

When I was a boy, my (Scottish) grandfather cut down some golf clubs for me as presents, and I hit plastic balls around the backyard.  I didn't start playing real golf until I was about 21 years old.  I spent most of my childhood playing basketball and other sports, and I also had a keen interest in the statistics of baseball.  I played table baseball and other sports games, including a couple of golf games.  One I remember was called "Thinking Man's Golf".  These golf games featured hole diagrams, and you laid out a template over the diagram where you intended to hit your shot.  This is where the seed was planted for golf hole designs.  I even spent a few hours drawing golf holes on pieces of paper.

Moving forward to my early twenties, my interest in experiencing beautiful playing fields was immediate.  Within a year of beginning the game in earnest, my father and I drove up to British Columbia and back, playing several courses along the way.  In the summer of 1980, much of the Pacific Northwest was covered in volcanic sand after the Mt St. Helens eruption.  I've always been fascinated by the great playing fields of the game.  Seeing my interest in the game grow, Dad joined the local university course (a nice perq for a staff member) and resumed his golfing life after a 25 year hiatus.  The Stanford University course established many of my early thoughts about golf.  Back then, it was quite a wide course, with flat, relatively uncomplicated fairway contours, and greens that featured moderately difficult short game play.  Most of all, Stanford features a beautiful walk through the back of the university campus, hilly enough to keep an aging member in good shape, and featuring native live and valley oaks, and a wide variety of birds and other wildlife.

When John VanderBorght nominated me for membership into Golf Club Atlas in 2004, I didn't realize how much it would change my golfing life.  By then, I had moved to Oregon and was playing at my own home club.  GCA gave me a chance to participate in discussions about golf courses, and to read the thoughts of other like-minded enthusiasts.  My experience can be distilled into two phases:

1.  Adopt the collective conventional wisdom as presented on GCA.
2.  Gradually develop and establish strong personal opinions that draw upon the conventional wisdom.

I believe a new student of any discipline is inclined to respect and adopt the thoughts and beliefs of the experts.  In my case, I spent the early years as a GCA member embracing minimalism, plus "quirky" golf hole design, and severe green complexes with lots of internal contouring.  As the years have flown by, my tastes have moderated somewhat, back to a bit gentler style of golf, and based on the types of golf shots I like best.  In many ways, my tastes gave reverted to the golf played at Stanford back in the eighties.  At the core of my philosophy is that golf is best played in a beautiful natural setting with abundant wildlife, and that the walk should be challenging and invigorating.

I've seen this pattern with many new enthusiastic GCA members, enthusiastically embracing quirkiness, minimalism and other core tenets of GCA, then gradually moderate and individualize their thoughts over time.  It's fun to watch.

As long as the new GCA member has the means to travel, and is reasonably kind and respectful, he/she is likely to have opportunities to develop lifelong friendships, and see a variety of excellent golf courses, furthering his/her personal education.  I am grateful for those invitations and friendships.

I expect my tastes will continue to moderate as I age.  I recently played Pasatiempo a couple of times, and it remains an ideal choice, despite the unusual nature of the short game play.  The moderate climate and challenging walk are just about perfect.  The 2nd hole at Stanford, or Ballyneal, or perhaps Riviera, are the specific type of golf hole that thrills me.  A tee shot that allows the player to swing without undue fear of disaster, followed by a long approach shot to a reasonably large green, that sets up the possible long birdie putt over gently contoured land with moderate and predictable break.  That's what I really like these days.  That's not to diminish the intrigue of the short iron shot requiring great precision, or the tee shot where favoring one side of the fairway is merited.  After all this study, I am keenly aware of my biases and my preferences. 

Peter Pallotta

Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2017, 09:06:07 PM »
Terrific post, John.

"I expect my tastes will continue to moderate as I age."

I thought: "blessed is the person who *allows* his tastes to change as he ages, and who *welcomes* that change".

Maybe also to the point (of architecture and architects): "sane and fortunate is the architect whose *designs* change as he himself gets older".

In the natural order of things, and in the context of creative spark and integrity, how could a 40 year old scratch golfer design a course that meant something to him, and then 25 years later design the same kind of course even though he's now 65 years old and 15 handicapper?

Peter     

Sean_A

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Re: GCA Lifecycle
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2017, 03:47:47 AM »
I spose my cycle isn't much different than most.  At first, I played golf because it was there...simply a natural curiosity about sport.  However, golf did stick until I became an adult, then well, sport didn't matter much to me. 

A 10 year break from the game saw me come back a very different person...much more interested in the playing fields of the game.  That interest has never waned, though what moves my needle has somewhat.  More or less, I sought out the stars of the game for about 10ish years and still retained a healthy interest in how I played.  I didn't play all that many stars, but enough to get the picture of what makes for conventionally described great golf and the incredible variety on offer...the concept of variety in design has stayed with me and is probably the most important aspect I seek in courses.  These past 10ish years has seen me care less and less about the game and more about the courses.  The game is simply a vehicle to see courses and people. 

As Pietro suggests, in recent years I am more focused on replaying my favourites/intriguing greats and further exploring smaller footprint golf.  My tastes are pretty well set.  I most enjoy shortish courses which are quick to play, comfortable or good walk, easy on the eye, easy on the wallet, and offer interest, variety and fun. I consider myself very fortunate to have enough of these sort of courses to play within a reasonable distance of my home.  My ideal club to join is probably Woking.  I certainly wouldn't mind a few more Woking's scattered about the landscape!

Ciao




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