What if Sand Hills was never built?

[Jerry Kluger]

Look at the Golfweek Modern top 10 - Sand Hills is number 1 and 6 others follow it and arguably are attributable to the acclaim it received.  How many of those would have been built and how many would have been done by those architects?  Go down the list and look at all the others that have their bloodline back to SH. Which of those courses would have been built and how many would have had the architect that did the design?  I think it is an interesting discussion to have and a very positive one as they are all great courses that enlightened the golf world to the benefit of minimalism.  I recognize that it may not be minimalism in its purest form but the US Open at Chambers Bay and Erin Hills have shown the public that championships can be played on modern courses that are not tree lined and bright green.  The restoration of Pinehurst #2 is very positive for golf and when they go back it will be appreciated even more.

[BCowan]

I have not played Sand Hills. As far as I'm concerned, if Sand Hills had not been built, it would have no impact on the golf I play and have played.

Reminds me of a Beetles song: "I Me Mine"


http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/imemine.html

Couldn't be further from the truth.  Hoover's experience is that of 99% of the Golfers out there.  The non butt boys perspective. 

[Brian Finn]

I have not played Sand Hills. As far as I'm concerned, if Sand Hills had not been built, it would have no impact on the golf I play and have played.

Reminds me of a Beetles song: "I Me Mine"

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/imemine.html

Couldn't be further from the truth.  Hoover's experience is that of 99% of the Golfers out there.  The non butt boys perspective.

I don't know...he's playing a perfectly manicured, modern, top 100, tournament brute up in MN as we speak... 

[BCowan]

I have not played Sand Hills. As far as I'm concerned, if Sand Hills had not been built, it would have no impact on the golf I play and have played.

Reminds me of a Beetles song: "I Me Mine"

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/imemine.html

Couldn't be further from the truth.  Hoover's experience is that of 99% of the Golfers out there.  The non butt boys perspective.

I don't know...he's playing a modern, top 100, tournament brute up in MN as we speak...

Hehe, he is playing a local course in his area though.  Hardly driving to the middle of nowhere Nebraska.  The said archie of the course isn't of the butt boy ilk either.  He has immunity.  99% was a bad %, my bad.   

[Tom_Doak]

Like RJ, I heard 6,000 CY was moved by scrapers or what not.  I suspect some of it was the notch on 9FW that allows you to see some of the fw from the tee.


Many other greens and tees had dozers move small bits of earth around, balancing cut and fill on site.

I don't know why we are getting into the amount of earth moved at Sand Hills, but since I hit balls around it with Jim Urbina before they had done anything but mow down the prairie grasses, I've got a pretty good idea of what they did do.


The "earthmoving" they have always talked about consisted of taking out a rise in the 12th fairway that would have made a blind shot to the green.  That's pretty much the only cut and fill that was done in a fairway. 


A few of the bunkers were already there -- the big one off the first tee, the hollow left of #4 green, the blowout left of #7, in front of #15 green, and the bunker off #18 tee.  The rest had to be cut out of the prairie grasses with a backhoe or excavator, any material from which was either lost in the fairways, or sometimes used as fill to build up the greens.


The day we hit balls around, I counted 14 greens that they could have just planted with the natural contours and called good; however, I think they did work to a couple of those, too.  #2 green wasn't anything like what they built; #4 is all fill on the side of a natural slope, and #8 is on probably four feet of fill from all the bunkers in back of it ... that was just the low end of a valley to start with, and the one green site that I couldn't visualize what Bill and Ben were going to do.


In all, it took the least construction of any course I've ever seen; our own course at St. Andrews Beach is a close second.  In both cases, no irrigation pond had to be built; usually the earthmoving from the pond is 5x as much as was done on these two courses combined.

[Tom_Doak]

Look at the Golfweek Modern top 10 - Sand Hills is number 1 and 6 others follow it and arguably are attributable to the acclaim it received.  How many of those would have been built and how many would have been done by those architects?  Go down the list and look at all the others that have their bloodline back to SH. Which of those courses would have been built and how many would have had the architect that did the design?  I think it is an interesting discussion to have and a very positive one as they are all great courses that enlightened the golf world to the benefit of minimalism.  I recognize that it may not be minimalism in its purest form but the US Open at Chambers Bay and Erin Hills have shown the public that championships can be played on modern courses that are not tree lined and bright green.  The restoration of Pinehurst #2 is very positive for golf and when they go back it will be appreciated even more.

Jerry:


You're conflating Sand Hills' creation with the concept of minimalism in general.  The second existed before the first.


For example, Chambers Bay and Erin Hills have fescue fairways, the same as Sand Hills.  So do all the Bandon courses, and Friar's Head, and Ballyneal and Dismal River and even Whistling Straits.  But Sand Hills was the second modern course to have fescue fairways.  They enlisted my grow-in superintendent for High Pointe, Tom Mead, to help them with the grass specs.

[jeffwarne]

Tom is FH fescue or Colonial?

[Bruce Wellmon]

If Sand Hills was never built, dare I say the "perception" of Dismal River White would have been somewhat different???
Prior to DR Red, the Nick was always compared to SH.........................
 

[Tom_Doak]

If Sand Hills never existed, Dismal River surely wouldn't.  It's developers only got the idea because of Sand Hills' success.  Ballyneal might have happened independently, because the O'Neal brothers had talked about it before Sand Hills, but it's much less likely they would have had the confidence to move forward.

[Jerry Kluger]

Tom: That's a good part of my point - the recognition that Sand Hills received opened the door for other really good courses that may not have been built but for SH.  It doesn't diminish the quality of the other courses but just points out why they came into existence. 


An intersting question which I am a bit reluctant to get into is whether any of the minimalist courses built after Sand Hills could be viewed as better than Sand Hills.

[RJ_Daley]

If Sand Hills never existed, Dismal River surely wouldn't.  It's developers only got the idea because of Sand Hills' success.  Ballyneal might have happened independently, because the O'Neal brothers had talked about it before Sand Hills, but it's much less likely they would have had the confidence to move forward.

I may only partially agree with this.  Probably the DR that exists in the way it does wouldn't have been developed as it was (big lodging, bold sand hills courses based on the unique terrain/soil qualities an remoteness novelty).

But, I believe that there were enough movers and shakers in the GCA and GCA studying community that were aware of natural areas around the country that would present unique design opportunities that would ask the question of could new modern courses that could be developed in a more traditional links and old sod style. 

It may be sort of 'if the right land exists and certain golfers who seek more than play and seek traditional golf a a matter of appreciating design;  well then eventually these sort of courses would be developed.  The fact that right out of the box, we got the SHGC masterpiece and all the creature comfort lodging infrastructure to offer the remote experience may have been a template that sped up the process of 'copycats' and such.  But, I think that perhaps on a slower scale, the movement towards the genre of the natural course designed upon the ideal prairie sand hill or sand barrens land was inevitable.  With a lesser first effort (say a Bayside or Wild Horse) the flame may have been lit in concept, but at a slower pace to fully define the 'remote ideal natural and traditional golf ' venue of ammenities.  But I think we'd have gotten there eventually. 
   

[BHoover]

I have not played Sand Hills. As far as I'm concerned, if Sand Hills had not been built, it would have no impact on the golf I play and have played.

Reminds me of a Beetles song: "I Me Mine"


http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/imemine.html

Regardless of Beatles lyrics (of which I am a fan), I stand by my statement. I have not played Sand Hills or any course which, to my knowledge, was influenced by Sand Hills. So, to my knowledge, Sand Hills has had no influence on the golf I have played...except maybe for jagged edge bunkering.

[Jerry Kluger]

Sand Hills plays firm and fast and thereafter many of the minimalist courses were commended for playing firm and fast - was that common at many other US courses when Sand Hills was built?