Charlie Macdonald early C C of Buffalo

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom - I too wonder how CCB-1912 version transformed into the moderately interesting muni it is today.  Is there anything left at Grover from 1912?

This is what the Erie County (NY) parks site says about "Grover":
History
The County Club of Buffalo built the clubhouse on this site in 1901. The 18-hole golf course, tennis courts, and a polo field were added in 1902. George Cary was the local architect (of the clubhouse) and also built the Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society, a National Historic Landmark. In 1910, A.L. Pfitzner, a pilot from Curtiss, made the first airplane flight in Western New York from the Bailey Avenue site. The C.C.B. was host to the 1912 U.S. Open won by John J. McDermott with a score of 283. The city purchased the club in 1925 for $800,000.00.The site was renamed Grover Cleveland Park to honor the former Mayor of Buffalo, Governor of New York State and President of the United States Of America. The County of Erie now owns and operates the challenging 18-Hole golf course.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Course Features
Grover Cleveland Golf Course was designed to put a premium on accuracy not distance. The course plays over 5600 yards with par being 34-35-69. The smaller, well bunkered greens reward those with a pinpoint iron game. In honor of the 100th year anniversary of the golf course, the Erie County Parks Department plans to renovate all the bunkers with new sand and new mowers have been purchased to improve the conditions of the fairways.

[Ronald Montesano]

There is a good deal left from 1912, although the adjective "challenging" hardly describes Grover...way too short.  I believe that there are lots of original greens, bunkering and mounding there.

[DMoriarty]

I don't have the source in front of me, but I read somewhere that the original clubhouse for the CC of Buffalo was used at the 1901 Fair as the "Women's Building."   I've looked it up on a map of the fair, and the building in the photo above may indeed be the "Women's Building" in the drawing I have seen. (I am not entirely certain, but it is close.)    According to the diagrams, the golf course was gone at the time of the fair.   

So it is possible at least that the photo above is from before 1901, when the buildings were just being built.  If so, then what we see here was abandoned, then a new course built after the fair when the lease for the land ended.   

Not sure if this helps.  If it does, I can find the sources again and try to post or link to them. 

[Ronald Montesano]

That was my other thought, that they were clearing the land for the building process.  Some of the pavillion structures were quite sturdy, while others were flimsy.  Only two buildings remain from the expo.

The location of the women's building would situate the course a few hundred yards north of present-day Delaware Park.  I'll see what I can find.

[Dan Herrmann]

David - you could well be right.  The 1901 Pan American Exhibition was probably Buffalo's zenith - probably as big as today's Olympics.

The big thing at the time was the advent of AC electricity from Niagara Falls.  Before that, Edison's DC was all that was available, and DC couldn't travel great distances.  Niagara --> Buffalo energy transmission was like science fiction in 1901.

[Mat Dunmyer]

Very cool too see a thread talking about golf in the greater Buffalo area- I had my first golf course job at the Park CC 15 years ago working on the maintenance crew for 2 years- what a neat place to get started!!!

[Ronald Montesano]

Mat,
I was a 13-year old, 8th grader at Amherst Central when I first played a CC (Park) for our high school team.  Going down the path from parking area to 18th green was like trespassing through time.  I've loved Park like no other course since that day.

[DMoriarty]

Here is a diagram of the plan for the fair, from the University of Maryland online archive.  http://www.lib.umd.edu/ARCH/exhibition/1901_b/gallery1.html



The "Women's Building" is the second red building up from the bottom left, on the left side.   It is located between two small circles (which were actually gardens.

Another photo from the same site:

   

Here the Women's Building is the second major building above the lake on the left.   It is next to the circle garden with maybe a small fountain.

Here is a photo of the building, from a terrific site on the fair, http://panam1901.bfn.org




It looks like the same building, and if so  then the photo likely dates before the fair.  [Unless most of the buildings were demolished shortly after the fair]


According to the same website, the clubhouse was constructed in 1989-90, so the photo likely dates in the 1890's.  Here is an excerpt from a description of the Women's Building from the same website, at the "women's design" page.

The Women's Building was the only "recycled" building on the  Exposition Grounds. The land leased by the Rumsey family for the Exposition had partly been utilized by the Country Club of Buffalo for golf and polo grounds. That organization constructed its club house in 1889-90.  The structure was turned over to the Board of Women Managers for use during the Exposition.

It was a large wood-frame building with broad, shaded verandas on three sides located in the southwestern area of the Exposition grounds, outside of the Exposition plan. Surrounded by the gardens of the Horticulture exhibit, many found the area to be restful and beautiful compared to the grand scale of the Exposition buildings.

Hope this helps.

[DMoriarty]

Oh yeah.   Notice in the upper left corner of the first diagram that there is something that looks like a very large, very upright golf club.   Could this be the location of one of the courses to which you guys have made reference?   

[Ronald Montesano]

It looks like a club, but I've never heard that site referenced.  The original CCB would have originated at the Women's Pavillion and headed west/to the left.

[DMoriarty]

Now I am confused.   I think the photo Ian posted above (reposted here) may be the Women's Building/Old Country Club clubhouse.  With the course to the right (East?) of the clubhouse.

It is tough to tell for sure, but notice on the front of the building in Ian's picture that there is a large center gable with the two small gables on each side.   The same seems to appear on the side of the building in the oval photo above.   

  Do you not think that the building in the photo posted above (reposted here) is the Women's Building/ CC clubhouse?  Perhaps they rebuilt the course on the left (West?) of the clubhouse the Fair? 

. . .

[Dan Herrmann]

Here's a 1927 aerial of the Main/Bailey CCB location from SUNY Buffalo's map collection. 

You can see the golf course at the very top of the photo (in its current orientation).  You can also see the big water tower refered to on page 1 of this thread.

[DMoriarty]

Here is the 1927 Aerial showing approximately the old grounds for the Fair.   I think the round circle in the golf course was some sort of Indian burial mound  at the fair




I have circled what I believe was the location of the original Clubhouse/ Women's Building.

So it looks like either the first pictured course is pre-Fair . . . .or perhaps it is post fair, and the building in Ian's photo is not the original clubhouse.   

I am going with post fair, different clubhouse.   Because of the tennis courts in both Ian's pic and the this aerial

Is the course shown the Park course you guys remember?

Was that mound/ circle still there?

[Jim_Kennedy]

DM,
A reproduction Indian burial mound.

..."are some interesting reproductions of some of the famous Indian mounds found in the West, among others that of the
serpent swallowing an egg. The burial chamber in a round tumulus from Ohio is shown, and also implements and pottery made
centuries ago by the Incas and Aztecs."

[Ronald Montesano]

That second photo is of a course that I had not seen, ever!
That course was built on the remains of the right half of the Pan Am Expo,
which was torn down after it closed.  You'll remember that the main,
multi-lane road is the central promenade of the Expo, where the
Electrical buildings, etc. were.  The Women's Building/CCB clubhouse
was always on the lower left of the expo plan/map.

The current-day Delaware Park course is about a half mile southeast of
the course in the second aerial.  It has nothing to do with this mystery course.


The photo that Ian had was of a primordial course, the first one built at CCB. 
My guess is that the course in the 1927 aerial is Park CC.  Ian?  I presume that, when
Park decided to move out to Williamsville (that same year!) the course
was abandoned and turned into housing and business lots.  If you read the
history of the Park Club on their site (www.parkclub.org), you find this nugget:

"In 1927 a notable Architect, Clifford C. Wendehack, who was also responsible for
Winged Foot Country Club's lovely building, created a spectacularly beautiful and elegant
clubhouse for The Park Country Club's members and guests to enjoy.

At the same time, our exquisite golf course was designed and built by an equally renowned
golf course architectural firm, Colt & Alison. The Park Country Club was the location of the
1934 PGA Championship, as well as numerous amateur events."

Since Ian did some work at Park, he is in the best position to fill us in on the mystery course in
aerial number two.  Now on to aerial number one...

[Ronald Montesano]

Aerial number on shows the Main/Bailey course of CCB, the second incarnation of the club and the site of
the 1912 US Open.  We see the water tower in place already (what I and locals refer to as KKD), but the
Veteran's Administration hospital will not be built for another 20 years.  This aerial was taken the year after the
course hosted the 1926 US Public Links championship, its second national championship in 15 years.

We see the long 8th (430 yards...clearly out of proportion on the scorecard drawing) coming to the water tower,
then the short 9th (300 yards, more in proportion) heading northward.  10 tee was sighted well back of nine green
and probably caused some trouble for 16 green (which I believe is still on the course, in its original shape!  The entire
hole, come to think of it...it is now hole number 13)

At the top right we see the sixth green and a cross bunker on the short seventh hole.  As far as identification goes, that's
all, folks.  Is there a farther-north shot in the UB archives?

[Dan Herrmann]

Ron,
I couldn't find another photo in the UB archives.  They have one further away - over by what was Central Park plaza (Main and Amherst area).

I'm thrilled I found that photo - that's the first one I've ever seen of that incarnation of CCB.

[Mat Dunmyer]

Mat,
I was a 13-year old, 8th grader at Amherst Central when I first played a CC (Park) for our high school team.  Going down the path from parking area to 18th green was like trespassing through time.  I've loved Park like no other course since that day.

Ron,
 
 I was going to ECC for engineering and drove by PCC every day for 2 years and was intrigued by hole #4 that you can see from the road and the clubhouse so I went in to talk with the superintendent (Scott Dodson- great super- he's still there after 16 years!!) and next thing you know I'm working on the maintenance staff. Park CC is why I got in the business and started reading about GC architecture.

Mat