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David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 07:32:31 PM »
Phil, I didn't take any pictures of the dead tees, fairways and greens, though since some are now challenging my assertion, I wish I would have.  I can say it looked significantly worse than JJ's pictures.

Eric, I agree that the course overcomes the conditioning to some extent.  However, I'd like to see a course that has severe conditioning problems if you thought the Links only had "some".
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 07:36:54 PM by David Schofield »

Greg Murphy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 07:54:24 PM »
David,

I think you were unlucky. I've played Links of North Dakota maybe half a dozen times, but not for a few years now. Every time I played it, it was in better condition than what I am used to. Definitely no "dead areas", though the first green which doesn't seem to drain well did seem inferior to the rest of the greens. Overall, whenever I played it, it would have to rank as one of the better conditioned courses I had played that year.

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2008, 10:08:37 PM »
I can't say I noticed the condition of the 1st green, I was still lovestruck at that point.  I did think the green fit very well into the natural drainageway, which is as much a "con" as a "pro" upon reflection.

Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2008, 11:31:36 PM »
David, you can see from these pics the conditions I encountered.  I could care less—the property, the great holes, and the wind all made the trip worthwhile for me.  I was there on June 30-July1.  They told me that they had a very difficult spring and the grass had just started growing.  Nevertheless, the greens were good enough and the fairway condition of no consequence to me. The safe thing to do is plan your visit mid-July through August, I imagine

I’m not sure what course Matt Ward played, as 1-6 all got my heart thumping.

#1 386 yd par 4, andeasy opening tee shot, combined with a fallaway slope toward the green that makes the approach tricky.  I thought it was a perfect opener.  In the background you can see the split fairway #2, with a blind tee shot toward two lines of approach


#2 328yd par 4 has a blind tee shot over center-line and cross bunkering , then a nice introduction to the lake vistas on the short approach shot


#3 132 yd par 3  Difficult humpbacked green makes this short one interesting


#4 485yd par 5.  The uphill tee shot. 


#5 415yd par 4. 


#7 518yd par 5 Most of the elevation change in this sprawling uphill 3-shotter is in the last 100 yards, and with the wind and the deceptive bunkering, it’s difficult to choose the right club—this one you could play over and over again without tiring.


#8 174 yd par3.  Viewed from the side, this hole is really hard when the wind blows.
 

#8’s interesting green feature


#9 331yd par 4, breather hole, where a pretty easy downhill tee shot yields a short approach and birdie oppurtunity


#10 551yd par 5.  Note the rolling characteristic of the property.  The pin is peaking out at the left this picture.  The hole has a short turn right to the green


#10 green





#12 438yd par4  The 12th is a dog right that requires a well-hit tee shot to get in the right position to attack this beautiful skyline green site.  Note #2 green in the background.  My favorite hole on the course
 

#13 334 par 4  Plays up the same hill as the uphill par 5 #4, but note it’s a short par 4—one of the charms of the wonderful routing of this course—with a tiny knoll-top (or built-up?) green.


#17 208 yd par 3  green.


I was so fascinated with 14, 15, and 16, all difficult, wind-exposed par 4s, that I forgot to take pictures.  #15 stands out, dog left with a tee shot that looks straightforward but on repeat plays makes you understand why precision is required.  Go see this course!

« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 11:35:41 PM by Eric_Terhorst »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 12:38:12 AM »


The maintenance presentation is too Westchester county, for my taste, or, for a real links course. Since LND has firm fescue turf, it's especially frustrating to be restricted in the type of shot played onto the green as the above photo illustrates.

Eric, The sixteenth has the fronting bunker covering 90% of the approach with little to no room in the rear, correct?

 
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2008, 01:22:37 AM »
I would have to agree with Adam, the maintenance looks anything but that which you would find in a links. Probably wrong grasses, definitely rotary mowers for the rough and general presentation. However, the ground looks fantastic and with the correct program this could be corrected over the next 10 years or so.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2008, 08:12:51 AM »
When I asked the Archie about it all he said was that he really liked the aesthetic of the contrast. The playability should trump that.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2008, 08:21:49 AM »
Eric, The sixteenth has the fronting bunker covering 90% of the approach with little to no room in the rear, correct?

Adam, you may be thinking of 14, a small green with a big daunting bunker greenside front and left.    #16 is a long narrow green for which a run-up on the left side might be the optimal shot.

I think the design, not so much the maintenance practices, dictates aerial shots on 2, 3, 8 and 17.  But this adds to the variety in the design for me.   More greens are like #5 and #13 pictured above, which receive well a running shot.

Jim Johnson

Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2008, 09:49:58 AM »

Eric, The sixteenth has the fronting bunker covering 90% of the approach with little to no room in the rear, correct?
 



Aim left on your tee shot!




Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2008, 11:10:22 AM »
Eric, it was the 15th I was thinking about.  The schematic does not convey how fronting the bunker is and how little room there is on the right.


The photo does not either. Perhaps it was my angle in from the left. I remember hearing others comment on the same issue.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jim Johnson

Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2008, 09:06:50 PM »
Damn, this crazy/stupid idea intrigues me.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33827.0.html

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,4870.0.html

Interesting comment from Jon Wiggett:
"However, the ground looks fantastic and with the correct program this could be corrected over the next 10 years or so."

J. Kenneth Moore writes:
"Bandon works because it has onsite lodging. Sand Hills has worked because its ultra-private and has a membership to support having a great course. There is no limit to how far people will travel to play great golf, but you must have something else there. Links of ND doesn't work because they have nothing else. Build a nice clubhouse with restaurant and some lodges and you can be successful there."

$200,000 for an existing golf course, Golf Week and Golf Digest Top 100, complete(?) with a cozy 3,000 sq.ft. clubhouse and a maintenance building. Hmmm.

Remote, for some, yes. But.........




JJ


Jim Johnson

Re: The Links of North Dakota and Hawktree
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2008, 02:19:15 PM »
Adam, I seem to recall that the fairway/landing zone on #15 has a huge area to the right as the fairway swoops around and down to the left towards the green.

This Google Earth image may convey that a bit more...




JJ

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