Changes at PVGC

[SPDB]

Jerry Tarde posted to his Instagram some photos of the changes at PVGC that were made this past winter. In some cases, the work looks pretty dramatic/substantial.


I think the work on #3 looks fantastic (and appears to consist mainly of tree clearing). Same goes for #5 (although there does appear to be a little bunker expansion where they took trees out on the left):












The changes to the bunkers fronting #2 and #18, however, I'm not so sure about (although I'll reserve judgment pending my visit there this summer):







Has anybody visited recently that can comment on the changes?


All photos courtesy of Jerry Tarde (https://www.instagram.com/jerrytarde/)

[Niall C]

I'm sure Dustin Johnston will enjoy playing there 


Niall

[Tim Gallant]

I was lucky to have played PV last week for the first time. I could talk about the course and the experience for ages, but I'll keep on subject with the following bullets:


- The caddies told me over 200 trees were cleared between the left of 3 and left of 4 tee. 3 was spectacular - a sea of sand now
- Trees have been removed behind 2 green and to the right of 2 green, which opens up views and makes it more of a skyline green
- I have compared my photos of 2 and 18 to those of my buddy Graylyn, who played the course a few years ago. I prefer the look & play now; more sand.
- Trees around and behind 5 have been removed when compared to older photos (from 5-15 years ago). You can now see the waste area in front of the 6th fairway from the 5th tee
- Trees around 10 appear to have been removed, opening up the right side more
- In general, when comparing photos to those in the 'courses by country' section and on the internet, it looks like they have reclaimed a lot of sandy areas, which had become overgrown with grass. The approaches to 3, 7 and 17 are SPECTACULAR.


Reading before the round, many had pointed to concerns that the 'waste' areas were becoming too manicured. I can't really comment as I didn't play before, but to me, they were great. Crapshoot on the lie, but generally, findable and playable to get it back into play. 

[Edward Moody]

I, too, made my first visit early last week.  Having only seen photos and some video, I expected a more claustrophobic feel.  However, the vistas and look were much more open and airy, but nicely defined.  I'm not sure when the work on 5 was done but the photo from the 2002 profile looks nothing like it does today.


Really enjoyed my experience, but the wind was ripping both days (25-30 and from the north) and made a tough course play even harder.

[Terry Lavin]

Here's hoping the wind dies down by the time I get there in three weeks.  I've heard plenty about the corridor removal work and look forward to seeing it in person.

[JESII]

Those front bunkers on 2 and 18 look like an improvement to me. They fit in with the rest of the bunkers on the course. I'm sure they also did some structural work to reinforce the hillside they're set into.


In my opinion, if the approach to width represented by that picture of #5 is followed throughout the course, Pine Valley will be the most visually stunning course in all of golf!

[Dan Boerger]

You guys hit the big changes. Played there a couple weeks ago and the trees are also pretty much gone behind 9 green. Really noticeable on the left green and nice skyline look from your approach.

[Eric LeFante]

The tree removal on 2, 3 and 5 look awesome. Does anyone know if there are any other areas that will be cleared in the near future?

[Edward Moody]

Dan - no. 9 was the consensus fave from our group.  From the tee it looks like there is no fairway.  I hit it down the right side both days which set up a good look for the back left pin...and with the skyline green it made for a stunning approach.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jerry Tarde posted to his Instagram some photos of the changes at PVGC that were made this past winter. In some cases, the work looks pretty dramatic/substantial.


I think the work on #3 looks fantastic (and appears to consist mainly of tree clearing). Same goes for #5 (although there does appear to be a little bunker expansion where they took trees out on the left):












The changes to the bunkers fronting #2 and #18, however, I'm not so sure about (although I'll reserve judgment pending my visit there this summer):







Has anybody visited recently that can comment on the changes?


All photos courtesy of Jerry Tarde (https://www.instagram.com/jerrytarde/)

With an eye towards modern sensibilities I can't imagine any golfer thinking those are pictures of quite possibly the greatest course ever built.

[Peter Pallotta]

JK - modern sensibilities of all kinds too, sophisticated and leaden both: even in all the renovations I read about where committees wanted to lengthen and toughen up their courses, not one ever wanted to toughen it up like *that*! Lucky for Mr Crump that he got it done when he did and didn't wait - if it was 8 decades later we'd be mocking him as a wannabe. At any rate, it sure is way too much golf course for me. I'd embarrass myself, I'd embarrass my host, I'd embarrass my family (ancestors and future generations)...it would not, in today's language, be much *fun* at all..

[Ryan Farrow]

Who is doing the work?

[John Kavanaugh]

JK - modern sensibilities of all kinds too, sophisticated and leaden both: even in all the renovations I read about where committees wanted to lengthen and toughen up their courses, not one ever wanted to toughen it up like *that*! Lucky for Mr Crump that he got it done when he did and didn't wait - if it was 8 decades later we'd be mocking him as a wannabe. At any rate, it sure is way too much golf course for me. I'd embarrass myself, I'd embarrass my host, I'd embarrass my family (ancestors and future generations)...it would not, in today's language, be much *fun* at all..

It would be as much fun as attending Harvard Law. No matter how much you hated it you couldn't stop yourself from telling everyone that you went.

[Blake Conant]

Who is doing the work?

I believe it's MacDonald and Sons

[Greg Gilson]

Isnt Fazio consulting archie at PV? Or is that old news?

[Matt MacIver]

According to McDonald & Sons website they have consulted at PVGC for bunker work, and in fact have worked on 16 Fazio designed courses, mostly bunker work, restorations or practice facilities.  Quite a list of notable courses. 

[archie_struthers]

 


My unabashed love for Pine Valley has remained true for four decades now. For someone who worked there it remains incredible that you remain part of the family , perhaps for life , just for your service.  Wish that our country would have such deference to our veterans .


This being said one often feels compelled not to "insult the Mona Lisa " and say anything negative about a place that framed your feelings about architecture and the game in many ways.


 However , I've been critical (not of the construction integration ) but of the strategies of the bunkers on #4 & #9.    My belief is that options were eliminated with their construction . strategy on the tee shot and approach .  No reason to try and catch the turbo boost off the hill right on four , or even risk cutting the corner. 




Reducing the width for sure eliminated some lucky bounces , which some might see as better . I've grown to embrace a little quirk as a good  thing, particularly as wild as I drive it lol


The tree clearing is spectacular , and hopes that the left side of #12 will be revealed before too long make me very happy .  When you see the impact of tree removal on #9 behind the green , it makes you wonder only why it took so long. Then you realize that what Crump started needs to be carefully pruned , in deference to his obvious genius. This  golf course is so much more important architecturally that tinkering for its own sake needs to be carefully inspectd and evaluated . kudos to the stewards who have watched over it for so many years . Love most of the changes but also to the thought process behind them !

[PCCraig]

Looks great. Love all the tree clearing.


How long until C&C is asked to consult after their work at #2, CPC, and Seminole?

[BCowan]

It would be as much fun as attending Harvard Law. No matter how much you hated it you couldn't stop yourself from telling everyone that you went.

 

[Anton]

Love the tree removal on 3 + 9 the most.  Removals on 2 + 17 were necessary but not detrimental to play or strategy.  9 needed it badly because the left green offers a wonderful 'skyline' vista over the ridge to 18, plus great airflow. I am not loving the extensive removal on 5.  One of the many highlights to even a pedestrian round at PV is the short walk from 4 green to 5 tee and then seeing that tightly framed brute of a par 3.  Seeing so much sand now will take some time to absorb fully.  I would have lobbied for a more conservative 'thinning' of the trees left and left the natural sandy ground rather than digging/expanding more pits.  My fear is that the gas to the chainsaws will keep flowing and the "Pine" will be out of Pine Valley, but I have faith in the leadership there. 


As far as the bunkering changes, PV opted to maintain bunkers on a more frequent basis back in the late 90s, as opposed to only light maintenance a few times a season, and at that point the course lost a lot of character IMO.  The shifting sands were legendary and I still recall my first round seeing the natural waves and footprints.   I imagined whose feet made those   
impressions and it added to the charm.  PV is of course an amazing place and best test in golf.  These changes will ultimately be completely accepted and should be applauded because a lot of thought has gone into each movement.  It just takes time & rounds for people to fully embrace them. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Archie,


This sentence has me confused:


"My belief is they eliminated options that constrained the strategy of the tee shot and approach .[/size][size=78%]"[/size]


Does it mean that the options constrained strategy and were bad and are gone? Or, that the options have been eliminated and that was a good thing and not it is gone?

[Doug Wright]

I think the changes to #5 are spectacular. The left trees were far too encroaching when I played there several years ago, particularly for the length of the hole.

[SPDB]

Anton/Archie,


Thanks for your thoughtful insights. I, too, have confidence in the leadership, but I get nostalgic when I look at these pictures. I liked the randomness of bunker styles presented throughout the course, which ranged from unkempt/scruffy to more deep grassed down faces of the type that fronted 2 and 18 greens (or in between 9 greens) and others. It seems that there is now movement to present all bunkers in a uniformly unkempt/scruffy fashion. Lost in this process, it seems, will be the truly random bunkers that you came across throughout a round. In recent rounds, for example, I've noticed the disappearance of a small pot that couldn't have been more than 4 feet in diameter behind the 9th green (left) and the 2 foot wide trenches that used to line the left side of the beginning of 17 fairways. These bunkers (and others existed elsewhere, including on 5) were nightmares in that they were hard as rocks and offered no realistic opportunity for extraction. But I always found them amusing (particularly when watching an opponent trying to negotiate them) and contributed to the charm and difficult randomness you encountered during a round at PV.


That said, I agree with others here that applaud the tree clearing, which has looked and continues to look sensational.


I'm looking forward to seeing the changes.

[archie_struthers]

Ron my bad it was a typo . Will fix it now. 


I feel that the Bunkers they built on 4 & 9 look beautiful and were well integrated .  However they dictate strategy and leave less options and thought.  They are pretty much pitch outs unless you get really lucky .


Four particularly had caused me to wonder    Back before the bunkers on  the right were built you could really challenge the corner . The shorter hitter could get a big bounce off the hill and get to the bottom of the fairway . Now you just have to stay left or else .   Not as fun IMHO


#9  is similar but not quite the same to me.  You could bomb one right and get lucky on occasion as the fairway was 30 yards wider in the corner .   Made for a little drama and a great angle if you hit it there 😎

[Mark Chaplin]

Anton very early pictures show Pine Valley looking almost like an early English heathland course. There were no trees between the 18th fairway and the railway line, now you can only hear the trains not see them.