Erin Hills in Golf Digest

[Joel Pear]

Received my latest issue of Golf Digest today, which is interesting in itself since I haven't paid for a subscription in years.  Their US Open preview section is dominated by an article by Ron Whitten on the building of the course and the obstacles they faced.  I went to the GD website to see if I could find it and link to it, but couldn't find it.  Curious what everyone thinks.

[Mike Wagner]

Received my latest issue of Golf Digest today, which is interesting in itself since I haven't paid for a subscription in years.  Their US Open preview section is dominated by an article by Ron Whitten on the building of the course and the obstacles they faced.  I went to the GD website to see if I could find it and link to it, but couldn't find it.  Curious what everyone thinks.

I couldn't find it either, but I can tell you the back story is really cool.  I've had the pleasure of getting to know Bob Lang pretty well, and he's an exceptional human being.  To think a non-golfer had the vision of building a golf course for a US Open is quite extraordinary.

[Tom_Doak]

I just finished Ron's article.  He writes that "of course I'm biased and highly emotional on the subject.  My DNA is in that design," and I don't fault him for that at all.  It was his baby, even more so than he writes, from what I've heard about its construction.


Ron says that Bob Lang never asked them about hosting a U.S. Open on the course, and that it was Ron's idea to approach him about it.  That may be so, but it's weird, since Bob Lang asked me point-blank what I thought of the idea of building an 8,000-yard course that would host the U.S. Open, before he hired Hurdzan, Fry & Whitten.



And though Ron was nice to mention by name nearly everyone involved in the construction, he omits one key person:  the GOLF DIGEST panelist from Minnesota who had Bob Lang's ear, and convinced him to hire the newly-created team over other designers, because Ron Whitten's involvement would help get the golf course publicity.  Like all such design contests, it wasn't entirely on the level, and I don't think that part should have been omitted from Ron's story. 


I thought Ron's involvement put a thumb on the scale for Hurdzan and Fry that he could have done for any other designer instead, and guaranteed free publicity to a course that other designers couldn't match.  Ron promised me at the time that a "conflict of interest clause" in the contract would prevent Erin Hills from ever being ranked by GOLF DIGEST, and I didn't buy it.  He somehow frames this in his story that he was "kicked off the team" later so that they could pursue a ranking, as if that wasn't entirely predictable.  I just think he wants to have it both ways, and he has, with Jerry Tarde's help.  In fact, today, the course is rated much higher by GOLF DIGEST than anywhere else.


I was mentioned a couple of times in Ron's story, quoted once [most likely from an old GCA post] as bashing Dr. Hurdzan, and mentioned later that the guy who killed his wife had lobbied for me as the designer.  So, I don't think Ron tried too hard to present me in my best light.  If he really thinks about it, I was biased and highly emotional on the subject, too, and he should totally understand.

[PCCraig]

I was mentioned a couple of times in Ron's story, quoted once [most likely from an old GCA post] as bashing Dr. Hurdzan, and mentioned later that the guy who killed his wife had lobbied for me as the designer. 

Wait...what??

[V_Halyard]

I was mentioned a couple of times in Ron's story, quoted once [most likely from an old GCA post] as bashing Dr. Hurdzan, and mentioned later that the guy who killed his wife had lobbied for me as the designer. 

Wait...what??

yes, saw that... Pat, start the popcorn, I'l get some beer.

[Tom_Doak]

Wait...what??

He was the project manager for the golf course.  He was first hired by the couple who had hired me to design the course and optioned the land; when they lost the option, he kept pursuing the project, and found Bob Lang.


I didn't appreciate that Ron had tied my name to that fellow in his article, instead of to the people who'd actually hired me to build the course.  No popcorn necessary.

[Terry Lavin]

Disturbing Inside Baseball as we say in the States.

[Peter Pallotta]

And seemingly gratuitous and irrelevant Inside Baseball, as we say in other parts of the world - unless there was some hope of leveraging US Open publicity into a movie deal where quirky/creepy sub plots with minor characters helps with casting

[Geoff_Shackelford]

I'll never forget Bob Lang taking me through the reasons he hired Hurdzan/Fry over Doak. We were there on site while the contractor was fleecing him with change orders and catch basins (and probably some private jet trip bills too). Even on that lovely sandy site, the place was so clearly over-shaped and woefully proportioned. None of Lang's reasons for hiring Hurdzan over Fry had much to do with design, including all of the Green Beret reasoning. I guess whatever look I had on my face made him to stop midway through the story, knowing full well they weren't the right reasons. Still, I felt for him having a course on that site run so much over budget. I haven't read Ron's story yet but something tells me he glossed over those details too.

[Jim Franklin]

Ron Whitten is arguably the most negative person influencing golf architecture today with his out of date GD rankings formula which favor high budget poorly routed cartball designs.  Now the GD panel is moving towards a fee for play revenue model for the financially struggling magazine with 1,800+ panelists.


Doak gave Black Rock a 0 in the CG yet it's a GD Top 100 selection. The Alotian, Canyata & Rich Harvest Links are really bad.


Whitten needs to be retired, Matt Ginnela would be an excellent replacement

Alotian is Top 20 Golfweek as well. Maybe you need to tell Brad to retire.

[Ken Fry]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

[BCowan]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

Good for Dr Hurzdan, someone has to have the balls to say it. 

[Ken Fry]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

Good for Dr Hurzdan, someone has to have the balls to say it.

I'll admit bias exists.  I'll admit my own bias.  So the rankings had nothing to do with the quality of either course?

Ken

[Tommy Williamsen]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

Sometimes in our own self righteousness we forget that the rankings are important to the livelihood of some folks. Those who assigned the task, for the most part, take it seriously.

[BCowan]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

Good for Dr Hurzdan, someone has to have the balls to say it.

I'll admit bias exists.  I'll admit my own bias.  So the rankings had nothing to do with the quality of either course?

Ken

Ken,

   It's hard to stomach the stuff one hears on here.  Just be glad you don't make a living in a racket....

[Terry Lavin]

Sorry to hear all the sniping.  I rather like Erin Hills for a number of different reasons.  I couldn't play it on a regular basis because it's rather hard and a difficult walk, but I'm confident that it will be a terrific US Open golf course.  If the wind blows, it could be very hard for the pros.

[Mike_Young]

Did anyone else see a Tweet by Hurdzan a few weeks ago when GolfWeek ratings were released?  He was bemoaning that Sand Valley, a course that has yet to open, was ranked and Erin Hills did not make the list, asking about Coore & Crenshaw prejudice.

Ken

Those who assigned the task, for the most part, take it seriously.

Tommy,
Can you explain what this means?  Are you saying the raters?

[Tom_Doak]

Sorry to hear all the sniping.  I rather like Erin Hills for a number of different reasons.  I couldn't play it on a regular basis because it's rather hard and a difficult walk, but I'm confident that it will be a terrific US Open golf course.  If the wind blows, it could be very hard for the pros.

I'm sorry to hear all the sniping, too, honestly. 


I don't love Erin Hills, but I do love Ron Whitten, who has been a friend for 33 years.  He knows more about golf architecture than practically anyone who posts here, although his tastes are different than mine.  He's the architecture editor for GOLF DIGEST but he doesn't run their rankings or affect the results -- he doesn't even vote, which is too bad because he knows more than any of his panelists!  He inherited the poorly-written formula for what is a great course from the long-ago publisher, Bill Davis; he is consigned to put a good face on the results, whether he agrees with them or not.  And he sure as hell isn't as biased about who does good work as Matt Ginella [who no longer works for GOLF DIGEST, by the way].


I probably shouldn't have posted as I did, but I was bothered that Ron chose to drag my name into his article at all ... it was a bit of a stretch to mention me, and especially in the context that he did.  And I figured if he is going to pretend to write the history of the place, you ought to hear from another perspective on the process.  I've admitted to my own bias already.

[Jud_T]

My favorite was how they milked the fact that they'd hardly moved a teaspoon of dirt in parts of the course, like the original, and originally wonderful, second green.  That is until they modified the green to make it "fairer" and gain more pin positions.  I agree that it will probably make for a very good Open test.  I also agree that it's probably the least walkable course I've ever played that doesn't allow buggies.  I think any negativity sensed here comes primarily from a good place- i.e. it's a very good course on a great piece of property.  I also believe that I'll be playing 3 rounds up the road at Lawsonia Links for the price of 1 at EH as long as I'm ambulatory...

[Peter Pallotta]

You know, I'm embarrassed to say that until 5 minutes ago I was  confusing Ron Whitten with Ran Morrissett. I actually thought they were the same guy! Even with the wedding pictures a while ago, I thought to myself: "Yeah, that's about what I imagined that Ron looked like". Are you guys really telling me that one guy, *Ron*, has been friends with Tom a long time and runs the GD architecture section, and that a totally *different* guy, a completely separate person, *Ran*, has been friends with Tom a long time and runs the GCA.com architecture section? Really?
Strange...,

[Ronald Montesano]

No photos of either vowel, standing together. Always an e, i or u, but not the o and a together.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill,


According to this list you aren't even top 20. Alotianesque so to speak. http://top100golf.blogspot.com/2006/01/people-who-have-played-top-100-golf.html

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, I get it, you need to get along with Whitten so that he doesn't work against you & your courses, that's a smart biz decision.

Bill:


If my goal was to kiss up to Ron Whitten, then obviously I would never have posted anything but kudos here, like most other golf architects do.  I just know him enough to trust him to be fair and honest in his dealings with me, even if I am obliged to write something fair and honest [but critical] of him.


At the same time, I've been criticizing the GOLF DIGEST formula of ranking courses for 25+ years, to no avail.  They tweak the definitions of their different categories -- not that any of their panelists change their ratings to match -- but they won't go away from the 7 commandments handed down by William H. Davis, accidentally, in a book from 40+ years ago.  [They weren't actually using any of those criteria until they were forced to put numbers to their system in the 1980's.]


But please don't blame your disturbing posts on me.

[David_Elvins]

Bill,


According to this list you aren't even top 20. Alotianesque so to speak. http://top100golf.blogspot.com/2006/01/people-who-have-played-top-100-golf.html

That list is in order of date, not number of courses played.

[Phil McDade]

Ron says that Bob Lang never asked them about hosting a U.S. Open on the course, and that it was Ron's idea to approach him about it.  That may be so, but it's weird, since Bob Lang asked me point-blank what I thought of the idea of building an 8,000-yard course that would host the U.S. Open, before he hired Hurdzan, Fry & Whitten.

It's well-known in these parts (Wisconsin) that Lang envisioned a U.S. Open at Erin Hills from the start, once he got the option on the land. When EH was little more than a twinkle in his eye, he was whizzing people around the property in a truck/ATV/vehicle, and openly talking about his dream to build a course there and someday host the US Open.


Lang was, from all reports, a little wacky, pretty ambitious, and a lot of out of his league when it came to building a golf course. But, this year's U.S. Open is his vision. He gets some credit for bringing it here.