[Niall C]

With regard to the Lexi Thomson debacle and the ever increasing time it takes leading amateurs and professionals to play a round of golf; and also recognising that a fair proportion of these players go through the college system, can anyone tell me what they learn in relation to golf ?

Apart from the mechanics of the swing and how to get fit, do they learn anything at all about the rules, etiquette and the spirit of the game ? And if they do, where does it all go wrong ?

Niall

[David_Tepper]

Niall -

While the topic you raise is worthwhile, it should be noted that Lexi Thompson turned pro when she was 15-16 years old and never attended college, on a golf scholarship or otherwise. In fact, she never attended high-school either, as she was home schooled.

Based on what I have read, the most poorly attended meetings on the various pro golf tours are usually the ones about the rules of golf.

DT

[Sean_A]

The more you play for the less the spirit of the game matters.  I am fed up with the spirit of the game argument because it is holding golf back at the highest levels from getting their decision-making correct. Either golf is ruled by the spirit of the game or not. We can't say the spirit is there when tv is used to call penalties the next day.  Personally, at the highest levels, I don't think there is much choice but to chuck the "spirit" out and run with a modern system of officiating.  For guys at my level, it doesn't matter. If you want to call it spirit of the rules, great.  I don't care much for getting in someone's face over the rules.  When I see a blantant infraction that gains a real advantage, then I may say something...but this incredibly rare...and even then it rarely means anything of consequence.  Just play the game and and leave the worrying at home. Honestly, the rules are a moving target depending on who I play with.  No way am I gonna rag on a mate for not marking his ball in the fairway when playing winter rules, no way am I gonna rag on a mate for not stating a second ball in play is a provisional etc etc etc.  Life is far too short for this nonsense.

Ciao

[Mike Wagner]

With regard to the Lexi Thomson debacle and the ever increasing time it takes leading amateurs and professionals to play a round of golf; and also recognising that a fair proportion of these players go through the college system, can anyone tell me what they learn in relation to golf ?

Apart from the mechanics of the swing and how to get fit, do they learn anything at all about the rules, etiquette and the spirit of the game ? And if they do, where does it all go wrong ?

Niall

My guess is for every unfortunate incident, there are 10,000 that would make you proud ... they're just not on TV.

[jeffwarne]

With regard to the Lexi Thomson debacle and the ever increasing time it takes leading amateurs and professionals to play a round of golf; and also recognising that a fair proportion of these players go through the college system, can anyone tell me what they learn in relation to golf ?

Apart from the mechanics of the swing and how to get fit, do they learn anything at all about the rules, etiquette and the spirit of the game ? And if they do, where does it all go wrong ?

Niall

My guess is for every unfortunate incident, there are 10,000 that would make you proud ... they're just not on TV.

+1
haven't seen one yet rolling around on the ground faking an injury in order to create 50% of the scoring on the day....

[corey miller]

What do you suggest they "learn in relation to golf"? 

My club hosts three different high schools in nine hole "matches" that take over 2.5 hours to complete.  When I made the modest suggestion that perhaps rather then play nine holes regardless of "time" they be given a certain amount of time on the course to finish the task. 2:15?

Non-starter with the guys on this site. Now we have young players joining clubs that are the better golfers that have never played anything but slow....Since they are the better players this becomes the "culture" of some clubs.

[Pat Burke]

In fairness, there is no answer, because every program, every coach is different.


I was talking with a long tenured coach from a local university yesterday.  I've known him a long time.  His team is decent this year, not his best, but actually playing their best as they prepare for the conference championship.  It's been one of his favorite years, because he has changed his focus from the best player available to players with character, that will fit in with the team better.
As we were talking on the porch of my club, the kids were finishing a qualifying round on 18.  Ball marks fixed, good pace of play btw, and one of the kids made an15 footer or so on 18 to win the match.  High fives all around and off they went.  I would assume they are gaining some life skills at the very least in his program, at least from a distance

[Niall C]

Sean

Clearly the rules are an issue and by there very nature will be an ongoing one for as long as golf is played but the spirit of the game that I refer to is the willingness of the player to do the right thing and not simply do what they think they can get away with while waiting for the rules officials to catch up with them. It's my contention that the correct attitude can be instilled so that novice golfers know this is a game that is quite different to football etc.

David

Thanks, I wasn't aware of Lexi's background but my perception is that the majority of players in the mens and womens game are ex-college players, would that be correct ?

Corey

That's a good question. I'd hope that they would be a bit more like the coach that Pat was talking to, and teach that it's not all about the technique. As I alluded to in my OP, I'd hope they would be getting a thorough grounding of the rules and etiquette (especially but not only pace of play) and that they would be judged accordingly.

With regards to the pace of play, your comment did make me laugh as I recall playing a full round at Moray in 2 and a quarter hours quite early one morning. I was playing myself and for most of the round I played two balls. Scored well also. I would have been quicker however I had to look for a ball a couple of times and one occasion stood aside to let a quicker single through !

Niall

[Mike Sweeney]

David

Thanks, I wasn't aware of Lexi's background but my perception is that the majority of players in the mens and womens game are ex-college players, would that be correct ?

Of the Top 10 men's players, I only see three that played some college golf:


http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.186.html


As mentioned above, college programs and coaches recruit players that are already well established and much of their competitive golf is NOT played in high school or college matches. The summer circuits are where much of the highest competition plays golf. I am not that familiar with the AJGA, but I have heard they monitor slow play more than the BIG tours:


https://www.ajga.org/tourninfo/pace.asp


Right or wrong, when you get to the Top 10 players in the world on the men's and women's tours, you are talking about corporate machines with lots of outside pressures ($$$) on them. To think the same rules should apply to them as the "club match" or my GCA match over the weekend for lunch is dated and reflects the lack of leadership coming from the PGA and USGA.

[Niall C]

Mike


Maybe I have the wrong perception of the make up of the professional tours but I think in terms of issues like playing to the rules and pace of play, it's about the tour as a whole and not just the top 10. After all, there's no point Dustin or Jordan trying to get round in 3.5 hours when the filed as a whole are moving at snails pace. I'm also not sure what you are suggesting in relation to the pressures on the top 10. Are you suggesting that they get a free pass in terms of pace of play ?


Niall

[Jason Topp]

David

Thanks, I wasn't aware of Lexi's background but my perception is that the majority of players in the mens and womens game are ex-college players, would that be correct ?

Of the Top 10 men's players, I only see three that played some college golf:


http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.186.html

Although I gave up on trying to navigate the clunky website, it appears to me that only one of the top 10 on the LPGA's points list played college golf.

[Tom_Doak]

Yes, the best players now tend to get on with it straight out of high school, just like gymnasts or NBA players.  If you think about it, if the LPGA players want to have a family someday [and some do, though others famously don't], ages 18-22 are prime earning years for them.


They've all been taught the importance of a pre shot routine from the age of 8 or 10, so good luck getting them to change without a shot clock.


Mike Sweeney's post is the first time I've considered that their sponsors are all in favor of them dragging out each TV appearance, so you can see the logo on each sleeve.

[Peter Pallotta]

Niall - while there isn't anything ethically untoward about it, I think it telling that recently the golf coach at one of America's leading college teams left his post to become the manager of his former star student and now successful tour pro. The "dollar value" attached to the top young golfers changes everything.

[Tom_Doak]

Niall - while there isn't anything ethically untoward about it, I think it telling that recently the golf coach at one of America's leading college teams left his post to become the manager of his former star student and now successful tour pro. The "dollar value" attached to the top young golfers changes everything.

Peter:  Who was that?


Whoever it is, he's the next Steve Loy.  Loy was the coach at Arizona State for Phil Mickelson, and then left to work for him.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, TD, that's fitting: this time it was Phil's brother Tim, leaving Arizona State to manage Jon Rahm. (And an astute financial decision it already seems to be).

[Kalen Braley]

I don't blame young prodigys in whatever the sport who skip college.  The NCAA is going to soak far more out of them than they can ever hope to get in return.  Good on them...

[corey miller]

NCAA is a messed up organization in a number of ways but strongly disagree with the notion that athletes are somehow "exploited".

I am a free market guy but "athletes" as it pertains to the NCAA also pertains to golfers, and vollyball players and field hockey and crew. 

Is there something wrong with a football athlete being "exploited" to pay for women's basketball?

[Kalen Braley]

Corey,


But the NCAA doesn't pay for it, the Universities do.  They pay for the scholarships, they pay for the teams, they pay for everything.  The NCAA just sits back as a "sanctioning" body to makes rules, run tournaments, and hold championships...all the while making billions and penalizing kids for accepting a meal at McDonalds.  Its by far and away the biggest legal racket in America.

[corey miller]

Kalen

Understood.....I see the point you are making though I would argue that I don't think any individual athlete is exploited.  Heck even O'bannon, what is the problem with part of scholarship being your likeness may be used in order to generate funds that pay for womens basketball and Lacrosse and wrestling and field hockey? 

Surely most all of the Universities within the NCAA are better off being under some sort of sanctioning body?

It will be interesting what happens when the big 5 conferences split off....Would be very nervous about title IX but I guess we have activist judges to insure that that remains.

[Kalen Braley]

Corey,


I don't have a problem with the fundamental purpose of the NCAA or any other body to run college sports at the national level...


I only have a problem with how they split up the pie at the end of the day...its nothing short of gross exploitation...

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