[Peter Pallotta]

That according to Golf Canada Magazine's 2017 list of the country's top 50 courses, Nos 1 and 2 are by developer Mike K, and Nos 3,4 and 5 are all from Stanley Thompson?
Is it striking or noteworthy or telling or surprising that at the end of some 130 years of golf course design in Canada, just 2 people account for the best 5 courses in the country?
Most of you will know the answer or at least hazard a guess that's better than mine, so I'd like to hear.
Peter
I know - me with a rating thread! But as they say, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...

[JMEvensky]

That according to Golf Canada Magazine's 2017 list of the country's top 50 courses, Nos 1 and 2 are by developer Mike K, and Nos 3,4 and 5 are all from Stanley Thompson?
Is it striking or noteworthy or telling or surprising that at the end of some 130 years of golf course design in Canada, just 2 people account for the best 5 courses in the country?
Most of you will know the answer or at least hazard a guess that's better than mine, so I'd like to hear.
Peter
I know - me with a rating thread! But as they say, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...

Foolish consistency I think--something few would accuse you of.

[Mike Nuzzo]

High barrier for entry
Natural selection of designers from golfer pool, not artistic pool
Non existant industry fostering of revolutionary artists

[Ronald Montesano]

Thompson + National Railway - Canadian Pacific = ...


Keiser + Devotion = ...

[Steve Lang]

  Peter,

We loved Banff and Jasper, and took a whirl around Whirlpool whilst around the Falls once... so those are our top 3, but haven't ventured to the eastern provincial realm yet..

But when I think of golf in Canada, I can't help but see the natural environment, unspoilt playing fields, walkers in the elements enjoying a brisk day out on the links.,,

[Keith Grande]

Relatively short golf season? Economics?

[Ronald Montesano]

Short season? Not for long. Global warming will bring Canada November and April with consistency. Buffalo has both months now, something we didn't have when I was a kid.

[Ben Malach]

I did and I think that its sad that there were so few courses of merit built between Stan's death in the 1950's and Cabot Links opening in the 2011. That is 60 years of architecture and land not put to its full use. I think that there are a multitude of factors that play into a failure of this magnitude from clients and architects not seeking past precedents. To the media playing into the "hard par, easy bogey" shtick laid on by RTJ and his acolytes.


But I think the saddest story in Canadian golf is that of Glen Abby. First it was built by Jack Nicklaus as his first course and it sort of shows most glaringly on the 17th with a green that is a frankenstein of a 3 or 4 good ideas for a green.  But with it becoming the permanent home of the Canadian open for so many years. I believe that it set a grim precedent for a lot of what Canadian's viewed as what good golf looked like and how a good course should play. This is I think the syndrome that we are still trying to fight our way out of.


But I think that we have hit a turning point with the construction of Cabot Cliffs. Canadian golfers are seeing for the first time a different view of what golf architecture could be and its exciting to be on the forefront of this new movement in Canadian golf architecture. We have many great architects starting to get their due from Ian Andrew's work with Mike Weir to people starting to notice Rod Wittman's quiet architectural hand at play in modern classics like Wolf Creek and Blackhawk.


We also have a new generation of Canadian architects that view golf more holistically than the past generation. Included in this are such guys as: Riley Johns, Kieth Cutten, Jeff Mingay, Trevor Dormer and hopefully one day myself and many more down the road.


We have a long road to go to create the golf that is worthy of this great nation but with time, hard work and the right clients I think that this goal can and will be accomplished.


 

[Peter Pallotta]

Ben: a fascinating theory, i.e. the reality - and/or the perception  - that the very best examples of golf course architecture in Canada were separated by some 60 years! On one side of the divide three golden age examples by the country's most famous and highly regarded designer, and on the other side two examples from the modern day renaissance as filtered through Mike K's tastes. I don't know what's more striking, the possible reality of this or the obvious perception of it.
Peter

[Ronald Montesano]

Canucks, listen up! His name is "Ian Andrew."


No "s" on the Ian, no "s" on the Andrew...One of each...Not plural.


Get it straight; he's one of your own. If you don't have respect enough, we in western New York will gladly offer him citizenship/shelter/sanctuary, as his work on our side of the ditch is exemplary.

[Ben Malach]

Sorry Ron and Ian I forgot the ' to make it possessive. It has now been fixed I apologize for any offense or confusion cause by my error which I have now rectified.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ah, sh!t, Ben, this one's on me. I got so wound up about the "s" that I didn't even bother to check the context. For what it's worth, I was in Ontario as I was bitching :|  We hosted a tournament at Legends On The Niagara for 220 high school students.

[Keith Phillips]

I haven't seen the Golf Canada rankings (is that Score or some other mag...can someone post the rankings?), and I don't necessarily dispute the top 5, but I guess I'm not sure what the point of this is?  Canada is a small market, 10% or so of the US, so if 2 of the top courses are modern minimalist designs (think Sand Hills or Pac Dunes) and 3 of the top 5 are classics (you get the drift), I don't believe that is vastly different from the US rankings, at least based on statistical significance.  I'd further note that The National is likely #6 or thereabouts and other 'dark age' courses like Beacon Hall might figure into the mix as well...

[Sean_A]

I thought Canada had over 2000 courses?  If so, thats a big market for golf when we consider the UK has maybe 2500 courses.  I would be surprised if someone said the top 5 courses in the UK were by two archies.


Ciao

[Keith Phillips]

Two things:
1. I re-read the OP and note that Michael K. is credited as 'developer', but obviously he wasn't the architect...so that means 3 architects in top 5 and likely 6 or 7 in top 10.
2. In looking at various top 10s in UK the names Morris, Taylor, Braid, Colt come up repeatedly.
...and finally Canada may have as many courses as the UK, but the quality is nowhere near the same, and the predominance of one classic architect shouldn't be surprising (Canada's population was far smaller than the UK 75 years ago)

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