If Augusta National Changed Architects?

[Ian Andrew]

Rather than have people share their own opinions on what they would do ... since they will never be given the opportunity to bring about change. Let's assume the Fazio era at Augusta is about to wrap up and the administration is looking to hire a replacement for him. And that a person, or group, would be given the opportunity to lead some changes in architecture.


1. Who do you think they will reach out to?
2. Who do you think they should actually hire?
3. What do you think your choice would do differently than Fazio?


The key to a good discussion is to explain your reasoning ... not just listing names

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ian,


Not quite on topic, but the highlight of my Masters trip this year was John LaFoy, who brought many original drawings he had from the files of George Cobb, who did the work there from about 1958-and into the 60's.


Fascinating stuff.


Also, FWIW, saw Tom Marzolf there with Bill Boswell marking tee shot distances on 13.  Not sure the Fazio era is over quite yet.....

[Mike Schott]

What does this phrase mean?


"would be given the opportunity to lead some changes in architecture."

[Ian Andrew]

Ben Crenshaw (w/ Bill Coore)



I think the combination of being multiple Masters Champion, a top designer and a student of architectural history would be the ideal mix for the club. They would begin at a place of mutual respect, which is the only starting point that would accomplish anything constructive.


I think they would address more of the play issues and loss of angles rather than blowing things up or making major changes. I actually see this as a realistic fit for the club and for its politics. I do think you would see historical elements bring their way back into the course design, but many of the larger changes would be embraced and would remain in place. I think the discussion would begin with original ideals, but not with returning original holes. I do think they would peal back some Fazio tweaks and return some Mackenzie bunkers, but otherwise I wouldn't expect dramatic change.

[Peter Pallotta]

1. I think they would reach out to Gil Hanse. His Olympic experience fits well with their stated goal of growing the game internationally. He also, it seems to me, is temperamentally/professionally predisposed to the 'middle ground' in the context of today's attitudes and approaches to golf course architecture -- ideal for a leadership unlikely to make wholesale or dramatic changes to the course. He has also demonstrated that he can 'take direction' as it were, working his craft in-line with/attuned to the differing wishes of varied clientele.
2. I think they should actually hire Gil Hanse. Both architect and club leadership will have a satisfying experience, for the reasons mentioned above.
3. There would be, I imagine, not a significant or strikingly noticeable difference in what the new architect did compared to the old, again, in large part because of the reasons mentioned above but also because in this case the main 'player' is neither the architect nor the club leadership nor the media nor the members -- it's Augusta National.
Peter 

[BCrosby]

Why wouldn't you reach out to the architect who knows more about Alister MacKenzie than anyone else alive today? The guy who wrote the definitive bio of MacK? The guy retained to work at Royal Melbourne? The guy who restored/is working on Pasatiempo? The house architect for Crystal Downs? 


It should be an easy call, no?


Bob

[jeffwarne]

Why wouldn't you reach out to the architect who knows more about Alister MacKenzie than anyone else alive today? The guy who wrote the definitive bio of MacK? The guy retained to work at Royal Melbourne? The guy who restored/is working on Pasatiempo? The house architect for Crystal Downs? 


It should be an easy call, no?


Bob

I'm afraid it wuld be a frustrating task for him.
I'd sure like to see the death of about 100 circular pine beds....

[Thomas Dai]

As to who, well I'll leave that to others to say. As to what I'd like to see done, well if you're happy to accept the thoughts of someone looking from 3,000 miles away via a screen, that would be to revert as much as possible to the width and angles and playing options ideals that MacKenzie/Jones initially seemed to want. And cut back on the over-conditioning and over-maintenance.
Hint - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60832.0.html
atb

[BHoover]

I would hope that one of gca's own would at least get consideration for any consulting or design work at ANGC. Particularly someone familiar with the historic and cultural significance of the club and tournament to Georgia and the South.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I would hope that one of gca's own would at least get consideration for any consulting or design work at ANGC. Particularly someone familiar with the historic and cultural significance of the club and tournament to Georgia and the South.

To be honest, any architect who participates here would probably be off limits, as they would fear we would talk too much about Augusta, and they value their privacy.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Ian -


Bill and Ben would be the clear #1 choice I'd bet. Ben's connection there is too strong. Even G-money can't compete with Ben's green jackets. If they reached out to anyone else I think it would be purely doing some due diligence on pricing, but I mean, c'mon man!


I'd bet the only way those two would want to get involved is if they could bring as much of the past back. A lot of it would have to be shifted around and adjusted for their 1 week a year. Call it the "sympathetic restoration" or whatever you will.


... With so much infrastructure in the ground, this stuff would be exceptionally hard to do though based on having to be ready for a tournament and the significant departure I see us dreamers hoping for in what we would want to see rebuilt. Its not like they would allow the tournament to show only a few holes that have been "restored" and the others in the current style... So chances are its something in between that isn't as far removed as we might hope for.


oh well, ya never know, maybe someone that paints squiggly lines on a single plane bunker with a drone will get it!

[Mike_Young]

Fazio isn't going anywhere as long as BP is there....

[Matt MacIver]

No one has mentioned Jack, so I will.


Crenshaw/Coore (order reversed on purpose, in this case) is obvious for those of us gca enamored. They could deliver a sympathy restitution which would revert previous errors.

[Ben Sims]

Just look at pictures of Bluejack and tell me Beau and Tiger don't get Augusta National.

[Scott Warren]

Is this not more likely in another 15 years or so when the ANGC centenary approaches and the club starts to reflect, as one does around a milestone anniversary, on where it has come from and what it was at the start of the journey.


Of course the club may reflect and pat itself on the back for the change it has made, but I would imagine the reflection required to change tack with regard to the golf course is unlikely as a spontaneous action.

[Mike_Young]

Just look at pictures of Bluejack and tell me Beau and Tiger don't get Augusta National.

We see it the same...my guess is the networking there is pretty strong...if I was betting that would be my bet...

[Ben Sims]

Just look at pictures of Bluejack and tell me Beau and Tiger don't get Augusta National.

We see it the same...my guess is the networking there is pretty strong...if I was betting that would be my bet...

And I don't mean that as a slight against Beau and the TW design group. Tiger has interviewed vey recently about some of the more basic changes of the last 15-20 years at Augusta that he doesn't like. Worked for Jack.

[Michael Moore]

How about Logan Fazio? Did you all see the immaculate hazard edge on thirteen when Garcia was in the bushes? I think the Augusta National Golf Club looks amazing. Good enough for Perry Maxwell and Keith Foster, good enough for me.

[Garland Bayley]

With those holes turning left, they clearly need some root beer, A&W

Andrew and Wier, two lefties.

I think the combination of being a Masters Champion, a top designer and a student of architectural history would be the ideal mix for the club. They would begin at a place of mutual respect, which is the only starting point that would accomplish anything constructive.


I think they would address more of the play issues and loss of angles rather than blowing things up or making major changes. I actually see this as a realistic fit for the club and for its politics. I do think you would see historical elements bring their way back into the course design, but many of the larger changes would be embraced and would remain in place. I think the discussion would begin with original ideals, but not with returning original holes. I do think they would peal back some Fazio tweaks and return some Mackenzie bunkers, but otherwise I wouldn't expect dramatic change.

Don't know if they can afford C&C. After all, they weren't even able to pay the good doctor.

 

[David Davis]

This would certainly be exciting. Of course a large percentage of the dojo has classic restoration on our brains, me included of course.


This shortlist seems relatively obvious for various reasons mentioned.

• [size=78%]First look at the list of the very top names[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Most prolific new courses and renovations[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Extremely high sensitivity for classic renovation[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Thorough knowledge of Dr. Mac[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Non-controversial, politically correct (as much as I don't think this should play a role, it could depending on the actual decision makers)[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Affinity with Masters (past champion might help indeed)[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Best internal network - knowing the right people[/size]
• [/size][size=78%]Lastly (though there could be many other points) what is the intention moving forward. Ie..are they planning to build a real estate development and finally make use of some of that potentially high end surrounding real estate. (in this case, stay with Fazio or perhaps speak with Jack)[/size]

Have to believe it would come down to two realistic choices and both would potentially give Augusta a wonderful make-over and it would be hard to imagine it not regaining the #1 spot on all ranking lists. (well except mine as nothing beats CP)


The era of the renovated 70's/80's look would dissipate forever and be completely forgotten with the exception of all the great champions and the golf world would be left wondering how on earth did they wait so long to do this masterpiece justice.


For now however, we are only dreaming as Fazio's connections are far too strong there.

[Niall C]

Some interesting answers so far and can't argue with a lot of the reasoning however before we go off and pick an architect, what do we think the brief would be as that surely would have a bearing, no ?


Niall

[Ronald Montesano]

I'll go off the board with Clayton/Ogilvy.

[Jeff_Brauer]

As far as I can tell, they are using the surrounding land to enhance the spectator experience, such as circulation, great entry, moving them away from Washington Ave., etc.


Over time, they have not always used celebrity architects.  RTJ was young, Maxwell wasn't that well known at the time, George Cobb, etc.  Then, JN, JN team (Cupp)  and Faz. 


As per above, I do get the idea that celebrity is not as important as flexibility.......

[Ian Andrew]

Michael,


Keith doesn't work there anymore.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Michael,


Keith doesn't work there anymore.

Same with Colonial. Gil is now involved with both.