[Ronald Montesano]

crickets...


http://ncgolfpanel.com/courserankings.cfm

[BCowan]

Old Town at 16   

[Cory Lewis]

All you really need to know is that a course that has been ranked as one of the 200 best Classic Courses in the country is #92 in the state according to this list.

[Brad Tufts]

I've always thought this list was a decent approximation of "what 100 courses are worth playing in NC?"


The order is obviously highly suspect.  How about this:


Is there a course not listed at all that you would add to a "100 NC courses worth playing" list, and if so, pick one to come out!


I will start with Wilmington Muni goes in, Mill Creek comes out (sorry Simper!).  WM is twice resto-vated Ross (I haven't yet played the Mandell version), and Mill Creek is fun to play with Simper, but not otherwise...

[Brian Finn]

I've always thought this list was a decent approximation of "what 100 courses are worth playing in NC?"

The order is obviously highly suspect.  How about this:

Is there a course not listed at all that you would add to a "100 NC courses worth playing" list, and if so, pick one to come out!

I will start with Wilmington Muni goes in, Mill Creek comes out (sorry Simper!).  WM is twice resto-vated Ross (I haven't yet played the Mandell version), and Mill Creek is fun to play with Simper, but not otherwise...

Until this year, Mountaintop was excluded from the list.  Now it is ranked the 3rd best course in the state.  Diamond Creek is still excluded.  Both are among the 100 best modern courses in the country.  So, they are not just missing courses, they are missing top 10 (in state) type courses. 

Regarding the order, any list like this should be a reasonable representation of relative quality.  Of course, it is subjective, but this list simply doesn't pass the sniff test.  I realize the group is likely a very small operation, but their output is so questionable that their methodology, their panelists, or (likely) both are lacking.  The fact that 'most' of the better courses in the state are somewhere on the list is hardly an endorsement.  Using gca posters and lurkers input, we could assemble a better list in less than 48 hours.

[Brad Tufts]

OK, I guess we aren't going to have any fun with this... I guess I should stop trying to find a solution to a slow-topic day.

I agree the list is not a good one, to be clear.

[/size]My point was we could probably add 10 and throw out 10 and be done with it.

[Brian Finn]

OK, I guess we aren't going to have any fun with this... I guess I should stop trying to find a solution to a slow-topic day.

I agree the list is not a good one, to be clear.

My point was we could probably add 10 and throw out 10 and be done with it.

Add Diamond Creek / Remove The Golf Club at Ballantyne Hotel & Lodge

Add Roaring Gap / Remove Lonnie Poole

[Brad Tufts]

I've only played Lonnie Poole out of those four, and I liked it.


The two adds definitely need to be added though!

[Matt Wharton]

I've always thought this list was a decent approximation of "what 100 courses are worth playing in NC?"

The order is obviously highly suspect.  How about this:

Is there a course not listed at all that you would add to a "100 NC courses worth playing" list, and if so, pick one to come out!

I will start with Wilmington Muni goes in, Mill Creek comes out (sorry Simper!).  WM is twice resto-vated Ross (I haven't yet played the Mandell version), and Mill Creek is fun to play with Simper, but not otherwise...

Until this year, Mountaintop was excluded from the list.  Now it is ranked the 3rd best course in the state.  Diamond Creek is still excluded.  Both are among the 100 best modern courses in the country.  So, they are not just missing courses, they are missing top 10 (in state) type courses. 

Regarding the order, any list like this should be a reasonable representation of relative quality.  Of course, it is subjective, but this list simply doesn't pass the sniff test.  I realize the group is likely a very small operation, but their output is so questionable that their methodology, their panelists, or (likely) both are lacking.  The fact that 'most' of the better courses in the state are somewhere on the list is hardly an endorsement.  Using gca posters and lurkers input, we could assemble a better list in less than 48 hours.

Sniff Test might be an understatement.  The ranking is published by a business journal (North Carolina Business) and has never remotely resembled anything that would pass for a qualified ranking in my twelve years working in the industry in NC.  However reading it usually provides a good laugh or two.

All you really need to know is that a course that has been ranked as one of the 200 best Classic Courses in the country is #92 in the state according to this list.

Thank You Sir! 

[John Foley]

43 courses better than Dormie? Need to see me some of them to believe that!!

[Bob Montle]

If Tanglewood is better than Tobacco Road then I'm sexier than Kate Upton.

[Carl Johnson]

O.K., this is the opinion of the "North Carolina Golf Panel."  That's all it is.  They don't name the panel members as far as I can tell.  Just looking at the Charlotte Metro rankings (top 12), it's clear to me that the panel members (whoever they are) have different standards (whatever they are) than I do.

[Mike Hendren]

I must have missed Forest Oaks on that list.  Love Design did a nice job touching up a tired Ellis Maples course.  Recommended.

Mike

[Chris Gibson]

While I haven't played all 100 courses ranked, I find it hard to believe there are 96 courses in North Carolina better than Tobacco Road. It's not my favorite, but it's thought provoking and quite good. My personal favorite is Mid Pines, which is woefully low in these rankings!

[Sean_A]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Roaring Gap on the list.  It is certainly top 5 best courses I played in NC. 


I am scratching my head at Duke being ranked higher than Hope Valley or Bald Head Island being top 50 of anything. 


Where is Mimosa Hills?  It has to be as good as Hope Valley, Governors or Raleigh. 


Ciao

[Tom Fagerli]

Mimosa Hills not being top 100 in NC and ONS at 4 or whatever is all I need to see to discount this list entirely. Not to mention OTC at 16! 

[Paul Carey]

Sean,


I guess you didn't like the complete redesign and reconstruction of Bald Head Island?  I'm not arguing about ratings because they all are a bit silly but your comment is pretty harsh and inconsistent with other views post reconstruction.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Roaring Gap on the list.  It is certainly top 5 best courses I played in NC. 


I am scratching my head at Duke being ranked higher than Hope Valley or Bald Head Island being top 50 of anything. 


Where is Mimosa Hills?  It has to be as good as Hope Valley, Governors or Raleigh. 


Ciao

[Sean_A]

Sean,


I guess you didn't like the complete redesign and reconstruction of Bald Head Island?  I'm not arguing about ratings because they all are a bit silly but your comment is pretty harsh and inconsistent with other views post reconstruction.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Roaring Gap on the list.  It is certainly top 5 best courses I played in NC. 


I am scratching my head at Duke being ranked higher than Hope Valley or Bald Head Island being top 50 of anything. 


Where is Mimosa Hills?  It has to be as good as Hope Valley, Governors or Raleigh. 


Ciao

Paul


I am pleased the course was redesigned...it needed it.  I haven't been back to see the new version. 


Ciao

[David Wuthrich]

Whoever does the rating must not get out much

[Ed Oden]

This topic comes up every time the NC golf panel rankings are released and every time it is widely panned as laughable.  Quite frankly, it is so out of touch with reality that there really isn't any point in discussing it.  While I would never think of squelching commentary on a golf architectural related thread, I personally wish people would stop bringing this list up since doing so only lends it legitimacy that it doesn't deserve.

[A.G._Crockett]

This list is hilarious every year, and this year's version is no exception.  Lots of posts above have pointed out obvious bizarre rankings, both high and low.

Whomever this group is, they might do better to alphabetize and call it a list of courses to try to play in NC; as a ranking, it is useless at best.  The rankings of Dormie and Tobacco Road alone render the list useless.

I agree with Sean Arble; Duke and Hope Valley are less than 4 miles apart on the map; they are light years apart as golf courses.  There isn't a person on this site that would play those two and choose Duke as the superior course; not one.  And that's only one example; there a bunch of those in this list every year.

[Paul Carey]

In an email exchange about this my friend told me this story:


"Remind me to tell you the story of the guy I met who had just gotten on the golf panel, his quote, "I'm not really a golfer, but my buddies got me on, it's great, we can play cheap golf anywhere!"

[Ira Fishman]

This list is hilarious every year, and this year's version is no exception.  Lots of posts above have pointed out obvious bizarre rankings, both high and low.

Whomever this group is, they might do better to alphabetize and call it a list of courses to try to play in NC; as a ranking, it is useless at best.  The rankings of Dormie and Tobacco Road alone render the list useless.

I agree with Sean Arble; Duke and Hope Valley are less than 4 miles apart on the map; they are light years apart as golf courses.  There isn't a person on this site that would play those two and choose Duke as the superior course; not one.  And that's only one example; there a bunch of those in this list every year.

Two comments:


1. We are non-resident members of Hope Valley as noted in other posts I have made.  We joined because we think so highly of the quality of the course.  And therefore I agree that it is superior to Duke.  However, I have played Duke many times and have always enjoyed it and found several of the holes excellent and only a few to be weak from a design perspective.


2. In my time on GCA, the one truth that rises to the level of Kantian is that all rankings are unreliable and should be taken with a grain of salt even if they are fun to debate.

[Ronald Montesano]

Northern Devil's Advocate: ... keep your enemies closer.


The more threads we have on it, the more likely our threads (and our opinion) are likely to come up in search enginge results. If we don't appear as contrarians, folks might actually take it as gospel truth.

This topic comes up every time the NC golf panel rankings are released and every time it is widely panned as laughable.  Quite frankly, it is so out of touch with reality that there really isn't any point in discussing it.  While I would never think of squelching commentary on a golf architectural related thread, I personally wish people would stop bringing this list up since doing so only lends it legitimacy that it doesn't deserve.

[Jerry Kluger]

I don't know if it is true but I have been told by someone who I believe to be reliable that the list is purely based upon how many of the raters have played the course.

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