"A Course That I Could Play Every Day"

[JJShanley]

I use the above phrase to describe courses that I enjoyed playing, but wouldn't expect to play regularly for reasons of geography.  It might refer to North Berwick West Links, that folk typically consider a 9 or 10 on the Doak scale, or my home course, Warren, which has a 6.  Silloth would make it as well, as might Angel's Crossing in Michigan, or Mount Prospect in Chicago. 


It might not include Braid Hills, for example, which I love, but which might not have enough variety for 50 games a year.



I've heard people use this description, in conversation and in print, to describe courses that you would play semi-exclusively.  Does it have a basement on the Doak scale? 


(This question does not account for bias inherent in comparing a course that you've enjoyed once, with one you've played 50 times.)

[Ben Hollerbach]

I've heard people use this description, in conversation and in print, to describe courses that you would play semi-exclusively.  Does it have a basement on the Doak scale? 

As in that a course ranked below a 5 on the scale would never hold this distinction? I would say no. While we often discuss a pseudo-list of fundamentals that make up a well designed and excellent playing course, in an attempt to take bias and opinion out of the evaluation as much as possible, The notion of a course that one could play every day is one of shear personal bias. For me, the courses that I have played in which I have formed the preceding opinion, have been all over the spectrum with I would dare say a slant towards the lower end of the range more often than not. A course for every day is simply about what you find enjoyable and fun.

[Paul Jones]

A course that I could play every day is questions almost all of us ask before joining a club.  While 99.9% of the clubs we join are not Top 100, they are fun for different reasons...  most important to me was location and members.  I cannot play a course every day if it takes too long to get there.

[Sean_A]

Oh man, to play the same course every day sounds absolutely bonkers...so I will go with every week...even that is a stretch as I am not convinced there is a course on the planet that wouldn't bore me after 50 plays every year.  If I was going to give it a go I would look for a somewhat flattish course without aggravating trees/rough, not overly difficult, drains well, isn't in a hot/cold location and isn't crowded or a resort. 

I think Royal Worlington, Elie and Woking come to mind first.  Strandhill, Yelverton and Brora might also do the job.

Ciao

[Jeff_Brauer]

To me, the phrase implies an interesting course, but devoid of the ball losing, tournament tough mentality, relatively fast to play, etc. 


I read recently where golfers prefer a course with a slope rating of 125-130.  116 is average, I think 155 is the hardest slope rating out there, so 15 points above the "average course" and 25-30 points below the max.


That would probably put the meaning into a good public or decent country club course.


Not sure about Doak scale, but if you read his explanation, he only looks at the top half of courses anyway.  S0, a 0-1 could really be a 6, etc., when considering all courses.  However, his explanations don't quite read that way.  He can explain better than I, but my sense is many courses that you could play every day might fall below 5 on the Doak Scale, perhaps in the 3-4 range.

[John Kavanaugh]

It's tough to play a popular course everyday. I play a course 5 days a week because it's out my back door and the fairways are imitation fescue. Nothing quite like waking out the back door and having a course to yourself.

[Jeff_Brauer]

JK,


Yes, we often forget the biggest distance issue in golf is distance from garage to first tee (at least for most)


We also forget that speed of play calculations need to figure time to and from the golf course.


Lastly, we need to figure the cost of lost balls into the cost of golf.  Sort of like a hidden tax on most.  At $4 per ball these days, its not inconsequential.  Anyone know what the average number of lost golf balls per round is? Wiki says about 5.....adding $20 per round for average Joes.


Going back to OP, I would think a course your could play every day would mean (to average Joe)


- Keeps lost balls  below average, 1=3 per round
- Allows you to score about your average score or a bit better most days
- Is well maintained (especially greens)
- Is scenic and attractive, has some shade.
- Not too hard to walk,
- Even if you take a cart, so not too hard to walk to and from tees/greens to cart path
- Yardage lets you reach at least 2/3 of greens in regulation
- And yet still presents reasonable challenge/hazards
- (For older guys) has on course restrooms at every shortening intervals (can't forget the basics)

[MClutterbuck]

I grew up playing 80 rounds per year, of which probably 78 were on the same course. If it were more convenient, I would go back to playing just that course every week.

For me this requires a course that is not too penal, where most days you would not loose more than 1 ball. Width would be important, wind and/or tee variety as well. Having 4 distinct seasons helps, with play throughout winter and summer.


In my case the course was a Doak 6. I could see my self doing the same on some Doak 5s, 7s and 10s. I suspect and will confirm in May that I might not feel the same way with another Doak 10. So the every day course qualification to me is independent of Doak Scale and architecture. And I believe Tom's scale addresses more the occassional visit desirability than membership desirability.


By the way, as a developer, my first and most important request to the designer was: This is a course where people will spend some extended vacation time and I want them to play it 30 days in a row and enjoy it. No out of bounds would help.


 




 

[Jeff_Brauer]

LOL, but in Googling lost golf balls per round, someone asked how many per round are "allowed."


Think about that one.  If "they" allowed golfers only a half dozen balls and they would have to quit and go in, we would have some wide open back nines!

[John Kavanaugh]

Jeff,


I think most people have forgotten that if you keep your eyes open and head down golf is just about the only game where you can go home with more balls than you brought.


The ball issue is a false flag created by people trying to destroy the game.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I recall that anytime I have taken newbs (like my son, wife, etc.) some of the golf lesson involves telling them to watch where the damn ball goes!


In those lost ball discussions on various web sites, some did mention that lost balls might be five gross, but one (or minus one) net.

[Nigel Islam]

It's tough to play a popular course everyday. I play a course 5 days a week because it's out my back door and the fairways are imitation fescue. Nothing quite like waking out the back door and having a course to yourself.

If its the course I'm thinking of, then I could certainly play that course quite often. That's a fun little place.

[Thomas Dai]

I recall a similar thread a little while ago, can't find it just now though.

In summary, for me it would have to have an appropriate annual playability climate, be easy walking, if 18-holes then comprise 2 loops of 9, 3 loops of 9 would be even better, interesting/challenging architect but not excessively long, free draining, nicely scenic, efficient and friendly staff, good maintenance practives, especially the greens, a quality putting/chipping area, not allow societies and not a resort and with a very low to non-existent idiot ratio within the overall membership. So, absolutely no chance, but you can always dream

Atb


Later edit - I'd like the course layout to be able to be played in reverse direction as well!

[mike_malone]

For me to play a course everyday it must offer changing challenges throughout the year. I also don't want to lose golf balls. I get to do this.

[Peter Pallotta]

The trouble is, prevailing winds are called prevailing winds because they prevail - and in my part of Canada, they prevail all season long, from late April-May to almost the end of September-October. My 'every day' course is a course I play about once a week; and with prevailing winds being what they are the lines off the tee and into the greens all remain very static. The course only plays differently every week because I play so poorly, ie because of my lack of skill, not because of any inherent architectural qualities. It is a pleasant course with wide fairways and an easy walk, and at 6600 yards long enough for me; but the only thing that could make this course - and I'd say, most courses - an actual *treat* to play every day would be a fine and varied and challenging and contoured set of greens. If you play a static course with static lines and wide fairways, even an average golfer is going to hit a fair number of fairways and, at 6600 yards, have a fair number of 7 irons left into the greens; the treat would be finding that the pin positions-interesting greens have made those same approach shots challenging and fun in different ways week after week.

[BCowan]

UofM and Ravisloe

[Ira Fishman]

When we were looking for a course near our potential retirement place (Chapel Hill, NC), we tried several courses.  When we played Hope Valley, halfway through the round I told my wife that "this is a course I could play every day."  The initial reaction was based on the quality of the routing, the condition of the course (especially tees and greens), the variety of holes/shots, the fact that it is challenging but does not beat the crap out of you, the aesthetics of both the course and the clubhouse, walkability, and pace of play. Since we actually joined a year or so ago, the initial reaction has been reinforced by the friendliness/helpfulness of the golf staff (even as non-resident members, we are greeted as regulars) and the flexibility in arranging tee times (teeing off on back nine available even on weekend mornings for a quick 9 holes). I do not know whether it is ranked on the Doak scale, but I guess it would be around a 5-6.


Then again, one of reasons Chapel Hill is appealing for retirement is that it is a short trip to Pine Needles and Mid Pines which as documented repeatedly on GCA are courses that could be played with great pleasure and enthusiasm every day.


And if all of the above sounds as if we just are Ross nuts, the one course--even though I have played it only once-- that if it were convenient that I know that I would absolutely want to play every day is Lahinch. Other than perhaps number 18, there is not one hole that is even close to pedestrian, and the other 17 are either excellent, scenic, and/or unique.  As far as I know, the stretch from number 3 through 6 exists nowhere else in the world. 

[Matt Wharton]

What is Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte, NC?   Sorry, Jeopardy moment!   


Biased too.

[Michael Whitaker]

What is Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte, NC?   Sorry, Jeopardy moment!   


Biased too.

Matt - I'm with you, brother. It's a total joy!

[Dave August]

Desert Forest.


Once you figure out where the ball tends to go, you don't lose many balls. As mentioned above, keep your eyes open and head down, I find many more than I lose (example - yesterday, I lost 2, found 10 because a college golf team came out to play our course, for the first time, and got into a bit of trouble).


I have played over 250 rounds there in the last 2+ years - it never gets old.


I know DF has a Doak score, but I do not know what it is off the top of my head.

[Tommy Williamsen]

For 15 years I belonged to that course. A Steve Smyers design outside DC named Four Streams. I'd vary it up though and play different tees. In season I played it about twice a week or some forty times a year. It was difficult but didn't beat you up. A bad shot did not always mean double bogey. It was possible to salvage par or bogey from foul balls. The bunkering was dramatic and well placed. The greens were quick and demanded a deft touch. The greens weren't as interesting as I would have liked but they we're subtle and I always thought I should have made more putts than I did. I moved too far away to retain my membership. There aren't many days that I don't wish I just go there and tee it up. It was a small club with 250 individual members so we knew each other and could just walk to the first tee on most days. If the first tee was busy the caddy master would just drive us out to a free hole. It is a great place.

[Tom_Doak]

The ball issue is a false flag created by people trying to destroy the game.

At one point while we were building Cape Kidnappers, Julian Robertson told me [and Bruce Hepner] that "you guys spend too much time worrying about people losing their balls."


I asked him to put that in writing for me so I could send it back to him later.  He decided not to; which was too bad, because it would have come in very handy the first time he played the full 18 holes

[Tom_Doak]

As to the opening post, I would like to think I've given at least a 6 to any course that I felt like I would be happy playing repeatedly.  But I'm sure that threshold is lower for others than it is for me:  many people would be thrilled to play a 5 regularly, because that's the best they could do anywhere near where they live.  In fact, probably 50% of golfers have never even seen a course that good.

[Mark Pearce]

I think Royal Worlington, Elie and Woking come to mind first. 

That's a pretty good start.  I've played Elie every day for a fortnight in the past and not been bored.

[Ronald Montesano]

I could play any course, every day. Outlier, for sure, but it's golf. You're telling me that I can play golf every day, after all.


From the physical standpoint, you do realize that you will be exhausted and probably injured/stretched from playing golf every day, and even the most endearing of courses will lose their luster/charm/appeal.


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