[Ian Andrew]

The flaw with this idea is it assumes a hole with less going on architecturally doesn't influence the what we experience as a whole. And yet when we look at music, the breaks and spaces are often as important as the notes. When we look at paintings, sometimes being only partially illustrated draws emphasis to the details. Rhythm and flow often comes by allowing the experience to intentional heighten and lower emotionally through architectural choices.

I think most fail to understand that greatness come from knowing when not to do something. Breather holes matter more than they get credit for.

[BCowan]

And yet when we look at music, the breaks and spaces are often as important as the notes

Exceptionally well said analogy. 

[Niall C]

Ian


Fair enough, but you are now critiquing Tom's definition and in fairness to Tom if he was writing it now he would write it differently as he said. However going with your ebb and flow approach if I can call it that, surely there is no reason why breather holes can't be exceptionally good and conversely the signature type hole (apologies for using that term) could have a fundamental flaw ? They may all add up to an exceptionally good golf course but can you really overlook a TOC 9th type hole in judging the course as being the very top notch ?


Niall 

[Thomas Dai]

If you took the holes mentioned in this thread as the lessor/weakest/poorest holes on each DS-10 course and amalgamated them into an eclectic-18 holes I wonder what rating on the D-Scale would the eclectic-18 achieve?😊
Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

Funny how historical significance can make the most mundane hole an interesting play.

[Tim Gallant]

The flaw with this idea is it assumes a hole with less going on architecturally doesn't influence the what we experience as a whole. And yet when we look at music, the breaks and spaces are often as important as the notes. When we look at paintings, sometimes being only partially illustrated draws emphasis to the details. Rhythm and flow often comes by allowing the experience to intentional heighten and lower emotionally through architectural choices.

I think most fail to understand that greatness come from knowing when not to do something. Breather holes matter more than they get credit for.

Ian,


I agree 100% with this statement. That's why I get so nervous about seeing a course like Dornoch going under the knife. As a stand-alone, the 7th may be a better hole after the make changes. But what will it do to the 'flow' of the course? Your description certainly is eloquent and succinct. Thank you for posting.

[John Kavanaugh]

Tim,


Under these guidelines how is North Berwick not a 10?

[Tim Gallant]

Tim,


Under these guidelines how is North Berwick not a 10?

It is to me! When are you coming back for another round??

[Ian Andrew]

But you are now critiquing Tom's definition

Not really, I'm pointing out my definition of "the least good hole" is different than most. Often I like what others dismiss. I might be the only one on this site that really disagrees with the 18th at Cypress being a weak moment. And I'm fine with that hole.

but can you really overlook a TOC 9th type hole in judging the course as being the very top notch ?

Yes, because the collective set of moments exceeds almost every course I have ever played.

I don't seek perfection, because I honestly believe that is a very flawed idea and doesn't achieve the results people assume.

[Mark Pearce]

But you are now critiquing Tom's definition

Not really, I'm pointing out my definition of "the least good hole" is different than most. Often I like what others dismiss. I might be the only one on this site that really disagrees with the 18th at Cypress being a weak moment. And I'm fine with that hole.

If you've read this thread you'd know that at least two others have that same opinion.

[Sean_A]

I gotta say this hyper defense of TOC 's front 9 and especially the 9th strikes me as disenenuous. It is practically impossible for me to imagine folks can't envision a much better breather hole... that is if in fact the front 9 needs yet another breather hole. At the very least folks should find another excuse for the current 9th...breather hole is a bit lame.


Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

Tim,


Under these guidelines how is North Berwick not a 10?

It is to me! When are you coming back for another round??

We can talk about this summer as we are playing another American "9.99".

[Ben Sims]

For an enlightened bunch, we sure seem to adore target par 3's. Not me said the contrarian. Pine Valley #14 is miles apart from the other 17 masterpieces.


Also, maybe it deserves another thread, but there's a great argument to be made that a consensus 9 (Tom, Ran, Masa, Darius) is more interesting than a 10.

[Andrew Buck]

Pinehurst #2, The 3rd holes is probably the best drive and pitch hole I've ever played.  It is one of the best if not the best hole on the course IMO.

Agreed, 15 would get my vote on #2. 

[Ronald Montesano]

I suspect that there is plenty of room in this thread to argue against a hole being "least good" for the reasons you identify. I don't believe that anyone will lose a job over a least-good hole; I don't believe that any course will be relegated over a least-good hole.


The other night, Grayson Murray twitter-pissed on journalists for projecting reasons for Jason Day's recent run of play. He was missing the point that it is a journalist's job to dig for information/explication, but it is a human being's job to apologize when a projection is incorrect.


Extrapolating from that, I don't know that there is anything wrong with offering opinions on a least-good hole. If I were an architect by trade/profession, I would welcome these follies, as they should enlighten me as to the thinking of people who play these/my courses.

The flaw with this idea is it assumes a hole with less going on architecturally doesn't influence the what we experience as a whole.

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