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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Theorists and Experimentalists
« on: March 14, 2017, 12:35:42 PM »
  (I wrote this about six months ago.)
 
 
This post is a response to a comment by Mike Young, who recently bemoaned the low barriers to entry into GolfClubAtlas, and our worldwide platform for making judgments about golf architecture.  While it’s true anybody with reasonable credentials can join the site, a participant gains or loses credibility with the quality, quantity and insight of their observations.
 
My Dad worked at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC), a two-mile long laboratory operated by Stanford University for the Department of Energy (DoE).  Its purpose was to accelerate particles for high-speed collisions, to further understand the nature of matter.  Dad was not a physicist; he was an administrator who worked closely with the physicists, mostly as a technical writer.  One of his “claims to fame” was organizing an annual SLAC softball game between the two primary types of physicists, the Theorists versus the Experimentalists.  Every spring I would be taken to the campus to play in the children’s game, and then watch the low key battle between the two competing factions of physicists, many of whom grew up playing cricket, with only a vague understanding of the rules of baseball.  “Run!  No!  The other way!”  Afterwards, everybody would go to Sid Drell’s house on campus for a party.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Drell
 
It occurred to me the terms “theorist” and “experimentalist” work well to describe golf architecture analysis.  First, let’s take a fond look back at the important functions of our contributors.
 
Agronomists:  The superintendents and agronomic specialists grow grass, combat grass disease, and select grass and sand types for new projects.  They encounter a wide variety of environmental challenges to provide the best playing conditions.  Thanks to Kyle Harris, Don Mahaffey, Anthony Nysse, and Dave Wilber, among others, for your insight.
 
Architects and Designers: Architects and course designers know all aspects of golf course design, theory and maintenance, and how the broad variety of player ability is accommodated.  Thanks to Ian Andrew, Jeff Brauer, Mike DeVries, Tom Doak and J.C. Urbina, among others, for your great contributions.
(Photo) Essayists:  Especially in recent years, photo essays with course analysis have become a strength of the website.  There are hundreds of excellent course reviews.  Many participants have submitted a course review with photos.  Off the top of my head, Joe Bausch, Jon Cavalier and Kyle Henderson are among those who have created multiple course reviews.  And GCA founder Ran Morrissett has produced an unparalleled collection of course profiles.
Proprietors:  Course owners and operators lend fiscal sensibility to the conversation.  Proprietors are rare and valuable contributors here at GCA.  Thanks to Chris Cupit, Chris Johnston, Dave McCollum and Mike Young, among others, for your contributions.
 
Historians:  Perhaps most impressive is GCA’s unofficial research department.  The historical study of golf ’s evolution, especially in America, has been the subject for some of GCA’s most contentious arguments.  The quantity of historical information is amazing.  Among the many GCA historians are Thomas Naccarato, Sven Nilsen, Bob Crosby, David Moriarty, Tom Paul, Wayne Morrison, Joe Bausch, Tom Doak, Geoff Shackelford, Mike Cirba, and many others.
 
Many professional golf writers contribute.  In addition are social and general commentators, annual gatherings and charitable outings.  The majority of our 1500+ members, myself included, have no specific function.  Fortunately, every member is an Experimentalist, and can be a Theorist.
 
Theorists and Experimentalists:  According to Wikipedia, “Theoretical physics is a branch of physics which employs mathematical models and abstractions of physical objects and systems to rationalize, explain and predict natural phenomena. This is in contrast to experimental physics, which uses experimental tools to probe these phenomena.”  In other words, theorists use existing physics to predict what will happen, whereas experimentalists conduct experiments, and make observations to draw conclusions.
 
In golf architecture, the terminology is appropriate.  We are all experimentalists.  We play golf and observe how the course interacts with golf shots.  As we play and experiment with golf, we develop theories about what makes great golf.  Some prominent theories about golf architecture concern:
 
Minimalism
Green size, shape and topography
Bunker design and placement
Length and width of golf holes
Orientation of golf holes to prevailing wind direction(s)
Progression of hole difficulty
 
Subjects like these are the source of my favorite GCA discussions.  I’m not a history buff, except to establish the intent and design of the original architect, which is often superior to subsequent modifications.
 
I try to be a golf course theorist, looking for simple truths in course design.  My proudest moments have been pointing out the importance of time spent watching shots, compiling a list of common biases in course evaluation, and suggesting that a good golf course should accommodate moderate types of common mishits, such as pulled and blocked tee shots.  Two subjects that beg further discussion are:
 
1.     An explanation of the physics behind how a golf ball interacts with the ground, a physics discussion any typical golfer can understand.
2.     An analysis (survey) of the types of putt trajectories that please golfers most.
 
Back to Mike Young, who lamented how easy it was for Average Joe Golfer to offer authoritative opinions.  In my opinion, the well-traveled, regular golfer is best qualified to evaluate golf courses, and draw conclusions about what makes golf great.  However, this golfer must not be too self-centered about his/her golf; they must take a keen interest in the shots played by their playing partners, and have good eyesight to watch the results.  I pride myself on being willing to try different types of shots, which helps me understand golf, but don’t consider myself to be the best evaluator.  I am not as well traveled as many here, and I play most of my rounds with 0-5 handicaps, which means I only see a small percentage of rounds played by the larger cross section of average golfers in the center of the Bell curve.
 
A few years ago, I argued that better golfers are more qualified to evaluate golf courses, because they play more often, see more shots, and spend more time studying the game.  This is not necessarily true.  The primary requirement for understanding golf courses is an innate understanding of physics, plus a willingness to watch and study shots, and not just your own.  Plus, seeing a wide variety of playing conditions — soft and firm, warm and cool, dry and humid — adds insight.
 
To summarize, the regular golfer, meaning the person who plays golf regularly, is best qualified to make authoritative opinions about what works best, assuming he/she is well traveled, and keenly interested in the golf games of his playing partners.  And Mike, tell Woody that the best Kenny Rogers song has to be “Ruby, Don’t Take Your Love To Town”.  The words just roll right off your tongue.       

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 01:35:02 PM »
John,


I'm not sure being a well travelled regular golfer qualifies one to make "authoritative opinions". It might well make one qualified in their own mind to do so. It would seem there would also need to be many other factors involved and then still, how many people are truly qualified for that? Let's say architects and some of the other groups you mentioned but regular golfers to me fall out of this group.


How would you define well travelled and regular golfer?


However, there are so many levels of all the mentioned peer groups. Architects for example, we have those that came there through life long progression and have focused their lives on golf and learning. But, I know many that just decided to call themselves golf course architects almost from one day to the next.


That being said if we take that to the site, we might have 1250 people out of 1500 that consider themselves having authoritative opinions. We might even be able to argue that given the right audience they indeed are.


I think therefore I am...


In the end the barrier to entry to GCA is a keen interest in golf courses and perhaps a growing enthusiasm for golf course architecture and of course you have to make it through the gatekeeper. Ran!
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 01:53:09 PM »
John:


Upon seeing the title I thought you were trying to divide architects into the two camps.


I think one could do so quite easily.  I'm not sure if it would be too much different from the "plans" guys vs. the "dirt" guys, but it might be.  Some who draw plans may change their minds early and often during construction, while others who do their work in the dirt might still have a pretty clear idea of how the hole is going to turn out before they start.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 02:11:26 PM »
So many ways to approach your excellent post, John. Here's one:

A few years ago I started a thread characterizing architects as either Romantics or Logicians or Hybrids. I concluded that the vast majority of them, past and present, were Hybrids.

None of the professionals on this board are Theorists -- they can't afford to be. They are practitioners -- experimentalists in the sense that the experience of what actually works is what guides them.

Many of them - e.g. Tom and Ian and Jeff and Ally and Joe etc -- indulge us, for many of their own reasons. But the essential folly of this website remains:

The vast majority of us can't be anything but Theorists. The best we can do, once a year, is to engage in a low-key softball match with the Experimentalists.

Peter


PS - The Experiementalists always win - not least because in this art-craft/medium there isn't a golf course anywhere in the world that isn't actually a real, live golf course. Unlike in, say, mathematics/physics, even the most elegantly beautiful formula in gca means, literally, nothing at all.   
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 02:18:17 PM by Peter Pallotta »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 05:31:36 PM »
How would you define well traveled and regular golfer?


However, there are so many levels of all the mentioned peer groups. Architects for example, we have those that came there through life long progression and have focused their lives on golf and learning. But, I know many that just decided to call themselves golf course architects almost from one day to the next.


That being said if we take that to the site, we might have 1250 people out of 1500 that consider themselves having authoritative opinions. We might even be able to argue that given the right audience they indeed are.


Hi David,

Terrible winter up here in Oregon.  Maybe 5-7 sunny days since October 15th.  Thankfully, the weather is gradually improving.

I consider you a great example of a golfer who has the experience and the interest in your fellow golfer's games to evaluate golf courses.  I am not suggesting that "regular golfers" like you and me, men who play 50-150 rounds every year, are qualified to make authoritative opinions about golf architecture, construction and agronomy.  But you have seen a lot of golf courses, and are therefore qualified to say how well a golf course plays.  Golf course should be evaluated on how it plays and the quality of the walk.  One must be aware of his own biases.  However, the regular, traveling player should possess the fewest and least powerful biases.  I'd argue that the professional designers, builders and maintainers of golf courses are capable of additional biases that the regular, traveling player may not possess.

With that said, I almost always defer to the expertise of the professionals in the GCA group.  I consider myself a student, not to mention that golf course evaluation is highly subjective.  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  As I've grown older and more experienced as a member of GCA, I have become less interested in sharing my thoughts, and more interested in hearing what others have to say.  Besides, even if you're one of the 75% here who like to share your thoughts "authoritatively", when you're home with your buddies those thoughts don't seem to be worth that much.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 05:41:07 PM »
The vast majority of us can't be anything but Theorists. The best we can do, once a year, is to engage in a low-key softball match with the Experimentalists.

Peter

The Experiementalists always win - not least because in this art-craft/medium there isn't a golf course anywhere in the world that isn't actually a real, live golf course. Unlike in, say, mathematics/physics, even the most elegantly beautiful formula in gca means, literally, nothing at all.

Thanks, Peter,

I say the elegant "big" theory in golf architecture is minimalism.  It appears that theory needed to be relearned after several decades of alternatives.

We might be tempted to look at our favorite modern courses as designed by Romantics, but I think they're actually Logicians.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 05:51:13 PM »
Upon seeing the title I thought you were trying to divide architects into the two camps.

I think one could do so quite easily.  I'm not sure if it would be too much different from the "plans" guys vs. the "dirt" guys, but it might be.  Some who draw plans may change their minds early and often during construction, while others who do their work in the dirt might still have a pretty clear idea of how the hole is going to turn out before they start.

I think it crossed my mind (a few months ago) that "theorist" and "experimentalist" could be used to describe the course designers.  But I'm not sure whether the plans guy or the dirt guy is the theorist.

 :D

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 06:14:23 PM »
John,


Very thoughtful as usual.  I would add a very subtle clarification about experimentalists, i.e., they are fundamentally seeking to prove or disprove theory, what they end up learning is how to quantify and qualify uncertainty so when results are evaluated, response to the experimental set up or test results can be discerned from background noise.


Have you seen the LIGO experiment which last year finally confirmed Einstein's gravitational wave theory, a final part of general relativity theory?? 


ps 40 years ago I was at SLAC on a tour and noticed a radio Shack multi-meter sitting there turned on doing nothing... owning one myself I knew it would run the battery down and reached over to turn it off, I thought the tour guy was going to have a heart attack as he yelled don't touch anything!!!  apparently the urge to twiddle knobs and such there was problematic at times...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Pallotta

Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 08:06:07 PM »
JK - yes, I think that with the possible exceptions of Simpson and maybe Leeds-Myopia, everyone else certainly leans towards the Logician. On minimalism, the theory may be of some import, but I think it's the practical *application* that makes all the difference. It's the local electrician who actually turns on the lights, not Thomas Edison.
Best
Peter

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 12:09:39 AM »
John,

Very thoughtful as usual.  I would add a very subtle clarification about experimentalists, i.e., they are fundamentally seeking to prove or disprove theory, what they end up learning is how to quantify and qualify uncertainty so when results are evaluated, response to the experimental set up or test results can be discerned from background noise.

Have you seen the LIGO experiment which last year finally confirmed Einstein's gravitational wave theory, a final part of general relativity theory?? 

ps 40 years ago I was at SLAC on a tour and noticed a radio Shack multi-meter sitting there turned on doing nothing... owning one myself I knew it would run the battery down and reached over to turn it off, I thought the tour guy was going to have a heart attack as he yelled don't touch anything!!!  apparently the urge to twiddle knobs and such there was problematic at times...

Steve,

Thanks for clarifying the role of experimentalists.  I don't have a keen interest in physics.  I took a year's worth of physics classes in college, and enjoyed them quite a bit.  I liked the general subject classes a lot.

It took me a while to respond because I looked up LIGO and read a bit about the study of gravitational waves.  It seems the detection of the waves was a long time coming, and required an instrument of incredible sensitivity.

I laughed out loud at the Radio Shack multimeter story.  It just sort of rang true.  My Dad owned a multimeter or two in his lifetime.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 08:34:48 AM »

If I thought about this too much, I probably couldn't put pencil to paper or move a mouse. Not sure I could even make a field decision.......which is to say at some point, you have to make a damn decision, and as near as I can tell, its much more immediately needs driven, and less so some big picture idea. 


Sometimes, its made with owners and shapers breathing down your neck.  So, the predominant theory in that case is to make it sound like you are thinking on a theoretical plane. Not many owners, like an airplane passenger, want to hear their architect/pilot say "Hey, I want to experiment on this one!"


In reality, it seems to me some experiments in design actually occur a few courses after you come up with the idea.  You might try a lite version of a design idea, and refine it a bit, more boldly in each course.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 09:07:53 AM »
John


I'm very aware of the Experimentalist/Theorist issue, being married to a physicist and still remembering some of the physics stuff I aced in HS and University.


Vis a vis golf, I see the Theorists as the people who see golf as a game as a problem to be solved.  They take lessons to improve/stabilize their games, seriously read the literature on golf course architecture, and then create (mostly in their own mind) ideas as to how to play the game.


On the other hand there are the Experimentalists, who play the game for the experience, and who from time to time identify variables which might change/modify the standard approaches to the current theories vis a vis "problems."


Of course, there are no problems to be solved!  To the individual golf is a game with no resolution.  It is fun.  It is a way to meet and play with people you like.  You "win" some days and lose some days, and you even lose some days when you play well and wind some days when you do not.  Then you enjoy a beverage or few and then come back again next week or whenever.


It ain't rocket science.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 09:41:28 AM »

Rich,


Right you are. It ain't rocket science, but the top guys market it as such, or more accurately, that their ideas come from a higher source no mere mortal can understand........
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Theorists and Experimentalists
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 09:05:11 PM »
 8)  OR PERHAPS WITHSTAND!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"