The impact of the new rules on rules officials

[Mike_Young]

First, I don't like the USGA and think they are there for maybe 100 clubs and the rest are there to help subsidize their agenda.  That's me.  Most everyday golfers have been playing by a similar set of rules as they just announced anyway and most don't know the difference between the USGA and the PGA or the State golf organization.  One of my pet peaves is the pompous ass, airy, rules officials one often encounters at State events.  Now, I'm not talking about guys like Chris Cupit who actually knows the rules and has had a perfect score on the test a few times.  I'm talking about the sate groups who come in and let the staff know they have arrived and here is what we expect and then proceed to prance around the premises.  Some of you know what I mean.  Well these new rules have to take the air out of some of their sails....the new rules schools will be interesting.

[Ed Brzezowski]

WOW ........    makes me feel so good that I volunteer seven days a year to help, minimum.  Spend a grand going to Rules school and constantly try to improve my skills to help those in local and state events.

Nice to see the effort a lot of us put into this is appreciated.

[Mike_Young]

Ed,
I go to rules school also....as I said earlier there are exceptions.  But ask any golf professional or supt and you will hear more than one or two examples of what I am speaking of....

[David_Tepper]

Mike -

I know you like to be "provocative" with your comments, but you have crossed the line here. The rules officials (who volunteer their time) and USGA staff I have encountered in no way fit the negative stereotypes you have described.

DT

 

[Pete_Pittock]

        2019 will be a tough year, trying to forget the old rules and move on to the new ones. Definitely a year tom always have the rulebook at hand before bloviating. I remember going to a tournament admin and rules school the year they changed TIO relief. Since I had no prior experience with them, the new rules were fairly straightforward for me, but a sea change for experienced people.
       But judging from discussions at the club today, the changes are too much for some, too little for others. For 90% of the people on course it will not move their needle one iota.

[Mike_Young]

Mike -

I know you like to be "provocative" with your comments, but you have crossed the line here. The rules officials (who volunteer their time) and USGA staff I have encountered in no way fit the negative stereotypes you have described.

DT

 

David


We agree as it pertains to the good ones but we disagree when it comes to the bad ones.  Of course the good ones get the big stuff.   

[MClutterbuck]

        2019 will be a tough year, trying to forget the old rules and move on to the new ones. Definitely a year tom always have the rulebook at hand before bloviating. I remember going to a tournament admin and rules school the year they changed TIO relief. Since I had no prior experience with them, the new rules were fairly straightforward for me, but a sea change for experienced people.
       But judging from discussions at the club today, the changes are too much for some, too little for others. For 90% of the people on course it will not move their needle one iota.

Pete,


I think you are right.


Many smart people have thought about these changes for a long time, so I do not want to criticize too much before I read in detail, but ...


I think we all agree that rules getting simplified is a good thing, and we would all agree that anytime changes to the rules are made they generate confusion and a period of adaptation that takes some time. My thought is that if we are going to make wholesale changes to the Rules Book, then the end result should be really, really simple, so that the benefits outweigh the costs. I am not seeing this simplicity in the new set of rules. The 20 inches vs 80 inches is a prime example.


Mike,

" ask any golf professional or supt and you will hear more than one or two examples of what I am speaking of...."


If the pros you talk about had actually studied and understood the Rules of Golf and the Decisions, they would think differently about many rules officials.

[Pete_Pittock]

Mike,
Regarding your last thought on the 20" rule. That is much simpler than current, which stipulates club length(s).  20" is 20", period.


Using the length of a club creates all sorts of inequities and inequalities. Do you choose a club length to maximize or minimize. If you have a club in your hand for convenience rather than by choice, what happens when a drop and roll is really close.
Should Yao Ming or Tom Thumb be advantaged or disadvantaged.


I have just glanced, and not thought or overthought the changes (so I may be incorrect here), but relief +20" plus 20" roll keeps you within a normal driver length of the relief point, which is much closer than the nearly 4 club lengths currently allowed.


But, you are right that a more simple solution is at hand, eliminating dropping completely and go to placing the ball; however I am willng to bet that one ruling agency thinks that is a bridge too far.

[BCowan]

Marcos and David,

     Mike has more experience in the Game of Golf then anyone on here.  He is the voice of the People and can wade through the sea of BS posted on here.   

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

" ask any golf professional or supt and you will hear more than one or two examples of what I am speaking of...."


If the pros you talk about had actually studied and understood the Rules of Golf and the Decisions, they would think differently about many rules officials.

MClutterbuck,   Myself and many of the pros I speak of have studied the rules of golf and one actually was the head rules guy for Ryder Cup one year for PGA...and taught many rules classes for PGA and USGA.   There are many pompous ass rules dudes out there.  they don't get the big assignments but they show up and use their self annointed status around many smaller events...we've all seen it but some don't want to bring it up.
My question was how the rules would impact rules official..it was not for people to tell me how I'm misreading rules officials.  I'm fine with people who have not encountered such but plenty of us have.  If I recall you are somewhere in South America...come watch the clowns giving rulings in Costa Rica sometime...total idiots...and they cheat....

[BHoover]

So let's keep a running tally of things/groups you dislike...muni courses (because they are allegedly "unfair"), the ASGCA, the USGA, and now rules officials.

[Mike_Young]

Brian,

Good list but let me clarify that it is the bad rules officials taking advantage of the "name" that I dislike.  I have friends who are very good rules officials.  Same goes for many of the people in the ASGCA and USGA.  But muni courses....yep....they need to go and saw where another is on the way out yesterday.

Take care

[John Kavanaugh]

There is no such thing as an unpayed volunteer. Everyone gets paid in some form of currency and sadly the exchange rate on douche chips gets stronger each year. Being the guy who defends the system usually gives you the biggest stack.

[BHoover]

God job Brian...thanks

I almost forgot...GolfNow.

[Mike_Young]

God job Brian...thanks

I almost forgot...GolfNow.

Thanks...you are dead on and I had forgotten that one....I'm proud of that list...

[John Kavanaugh]

I think we can all agree that if everyone who has agreed to volunteer for every golf tournament in 2018, pro and amateur, were to organize and insist on being paid a fair wage we could change the game. In a very, very good way.

[James Brown]

There are definitely too many pompous and self important golf rules lawyers out there and they fuel many of the negative stereotypes about golf.  What I have always resented is the mistaken notion by some amateur golf officials that their role is to penalize players rather than help them.  Anyone who has played a fair amount of state level events has experienced the situation where some guy has his round ruined over some ridiculous rules situation over a relief drop or a lie because of the overcomplicating rules.


I think the rules of golf have held back enjoyment of the game, not enhanced it.  And I would be delighted to see a lessening of the value of someone who has memorized all of the decisions! 

[David_Tepper]

"Mike has more experience in the Game of Golf then anyone on here.  He is the voice of the People and can wade through the sea of BS posted on here."

Ben C. -

Having been a participant on this board for close to 20 years now, I am well aware of Mike Young's place in the world of golf. I am also aware of his biases and his tendency to exaggerate just a bit to make point.

DT 

[Mike_Young]

"Mike has more experience in the Game of Golf then anyone on here.  He is the voice of the People and can wade through the sea of BS posted on here."

Ben C. -

Having been a participant on this board for close to 20 years now, I am well aware of Mike Young's place in the world of golf. I am also aware of his biases and his tendency to exaggerate just a bit to make point.

DT

DT,
Those comments are from BC and not from me.  I admit to those biases with no apologies but would like to know where I exaggerated.  Your comments say that you have not encountered such people in the USGA and the rules officials.  I have.  Where are the exaggerations?

[David_Tepper]

Mike Y. -

Given your motto ("If you are completely agitated and confused, then my work here is done....") are you saying you don't attempt to be provocative by engaging in hyperbole from time to time?

You state you meet pompous rules officials "often." To me, "often" means an appreciable number of times. My dictionary defines "often" as "many," which is defined as large number.

Of the rules officials you have come across, what percentage has been have been pompous asses?

And by the way, I am not saying there are no rules officials who are pompous asses. I am just questioning whether you encounter them "often." 

DT   

[Mike_Young]

Mike Y. -

Given your motto ("If you are completely agitated and confused, then my work here is done....") are you saying you don't attempt to be provocative by engaging in hyperbole from time to time?   Sure...I get bored and try to stir sh*t..  And so it may be phrased as to get a reaction but that doesn't mean it is exaggeration. 

You state you meet pompous rules officials "often." To me, "often" means an appreciable number of times. My dictionary defines "often" as "many," which is defined as large number.    I would be comfortable to say I see one or two atmost state events.  Now they may be the same as the at other events.  And the good rules officials also know it...they just tolerate it...but these guys often don't have the record or scores for the regional or higher events.

Of the rules officials you have come across, what percentage has been have been pompous asses?   I would guess 20%...they just can't help it....it's sort of like some middle management guy retiring and becoming president of his Homeowner's Association...pure Billy Badass stuff...     

DT   

[David_Tepper]

Mike Y. -

Your experience in the world of golf is, at the very least, a thousand times greater than mine. (maybe ten thousand). In no way would I try to deny that.

I like to think that words have meaning, which is probably a mistake on chatboards like this. If you had said you "sometimes" meet a pompous ass rules official or you meet a "certain number" of them from time to time, I would not have objected. To me "often" implies a significant number and I felt that was unfair to the majority of rules officials who give so willingly of their time year after year.

DT   

[Jerry Kluger]

Mike:


I am surprised that you brought up this thread considering:


WOW....thank you USGA.  99.5 percent of us are not affected and 99 percent of us don't play by the rules anyway.


BTW: I have to say that I totally agree with that statement.

[Jerry Kluger]

I should add that they failed to address the really tough issue that nearly every golfer faces, namely, the stroke and distance penalty. How do you walk back after you realize that your ball is lost or out of bounds, knowing that you will now slow down the entire course?  Sort of destroys the whole concept of play it forward or speed up pace of play.

[Mike_Young]

Mike Y. -

Your experience in the world of golf is, at the very least, a thousand times greater than mine. (maybe ten thousand). In no way would I try to deny that.

I like to think that words have meaning, which is probably a mistake on chatboards like this. If you had said you "sometimes" meet a pompous ass rules official or you meet a "certain number" of them from time to time, I would not have objected. To me "often" implies a significant number and I felt that was unfair to the majority of rules officials who give so willingly of their time year after year.

DT   

David,
You may be exaggerating my experience in golf vs. yours.  I didn't make my statements in order to sound like some golf know it all and it was not me who even mentioned experience.  But you make a good point in your second paragraph above.  I should have used  "sometime" or "certain number".  But I'm still not at the point of praising any golf volunteer for giving their time willingly.  It just doesn't seem the same as if they were giving those same hours to the food banks or Project Safes etc.  around the country. 

And back to my original topic....I am assuming the new rules will remove the burden of needing as many rules officials at an event as were needed before.  So much room for argument of minute detail has been eliminated.