[Steve Lang]

  ,


I haven't read any of the new stuff, but hope these guys are in the good category

PG1025_Snoopy_20Friends_20Rules_20of_20Golf_grande.jpg

The only rules most amateurs need to know are:the difference between yellow, red, and white stakes/lines, when if its a free drop you get one club length, you gotta pay one stroke to get two, and if you're bending down, you better be tying your shoes.and there's golf and there's tournament golf

[Jason Thurman]

I would be comfortable to say I see one or two atmost state events.  Now they may be the same as the at other events.

I would be comfortable to say that I can pick out a jackass or two from almost any random sampling of a dozen or more people. Hell, if my only experience with golf course architects was reading this thread, I'd probably think jackassery was rampant among that profession too.


I hope some of us start playing golf soon and come up with some interesting stuff to talk about.

[Mike_Young]

I would be comfortable to say I see one or two atmost state events.  Now they may be the same as the at other events.

I would be comfortable to say that I can pick out a jackass or two from almost any random sampling of a dozen or more people. Hell, if my only experience with golf course architects was reading this thread, I'd probably think jackassery was rampant among that profession too.


I hope some of us start playing golf soon and come up with some interesting stuff to talk about.

Jason,

The jackass is a direct descendant of golf architects...you didn't know that?

[Tim Gavrich]

Mike, would you care to give some specific examples of "pompous ass, airy" officials? As often as you seem to encounter them, you must have dozens of specific anecdotes of pompousness and airiness.


I'm a number of years your junior, but having played tournament golf in junior tournaments, high school, college and beyond in about a dozen different states, my experience tells me that the times when a rules official has been anything other than gracious, but matter-of-fact have almost always occurred when a player has been rude or terse with an official. In fact, I can't think of one interaction I've had with a rules official where the official started off salty.


There are lots of golfers with bad attitudes out there, and rules officials are easy, if unfair, targets for players who don't know how to vent their own self-inflicted frustrations correctly on the course. For that reason, it wouldn't surprise me if there was the sort of streak among rules officials that you perceive. And yet...

[Mike_Young]

Mike, would you care to give some specific examples of "pompous ass, airy" officials? As often as you seem to encounter them, you must have dozens of specific anecdotes of pompousness and airiness.


I'm a number of years your junior, but having played tournament golf in junior tournaments, high school, college and beyond in about a dozen different states, my experience tells me that the times when a rules official has been anything other than gracious, but matter-of-fact have almost always occurred when a player has been rude or terse with an official. In fact, I can't think of one interaction I've had with a rules official where the official started off salty.


There are lots of golfers with bad attitudes out there, and rules officials are easy, if unfair, targets for players who don't know how to vent their own self-inflicted frustrations correctly on the course. For that reason, it wouldn't surprise me if there was the sort of streak among rules officials that you perceive. And yet...

Let me put it this way Tim.  On the DT post I have already agreed that I am saying it is only about 20% of the rules dudes.  I will describe it from how other rules officials describe it to me.  I have a few friends who have been doing rules for years and do most of the larger state tourneys and a few regional etc.  They know who the characters are and they will sit back and say" watch this" .  Some airy rules dude will come in to tell the head pro that basically he has arrived and this is what he needs and puts an air out there that is actually funny.  Then the good guys will watch him for a couple of days as he comes up with various issues that were not issues in the first place.  And then with most rulings they end up calling another guy in anyway.  I've had them tell myself and others that we don't need to be in "that" golf car with another rules official because it is not proper and all sorts of BS...they are harmless but frustrated...hell we have one that actually plays with us and can't play at all but on every hole has a comment about something he was told at the " last meeting"...we totally abuse the guy because we like him and he is an idiot but it's fun to watch him put on his "rules suit" and become the reason the tourney exist....I hope that describes the guys I'm talking about...most of you know them...

[Pete_Pittock]

And back to my original topic....I am assuming the new rules will remove the burden of needing as many rules officials at an event as were needed before.  So much room for argument of minute detail has been eliminated.

Just like computers created so much free time.   

[MClutterbuck]

Mike,

" ask any golf professional or supt and you will hear more than one or two examples of what I am speaking of...."


If the pros you talk about had actually studied and understood the Rules of Golf and the Decisions, they would think differently about many rules officials.

MClutterbuck,   Myself and many of the pros I speak of have studied the rules of golf and one actually was the head rules guy for Ryder Cup one year for PGA...and taught many rules classes for PGA and USGA.   There are many pompous ass rules dudes out there.  they don't get the big assignments but they show up and use their self annointed status around many smaller events...we've all seen it but some don't want to bring it up.
My question was how the rules would impact rules official..it was not for people to tell me how I'm misreading rules officials.  I'm fine with people who have not encountered such but plenty of us have.  If I recall you are somewhere in South America...come watch the clowns giving rulings in Costa Rica sometime...total idiots...and they cheat....

Mike,


What I was stating is that often players do not like rules officials because they are weak understanding the rules and avoiding penalties. I could not comment on Costa Rica. My exposure to rules officials is motly in Argentina and some in the US, and while idiots exist across all occupations, I would not say Rules Officials are worse people than others, and often have to act in difficult situations and under a lot of pressure.


M

[Pat Burke]

Tough thread.  I certainly had some bad experiences with "local" officials, but playing in so many tournaments the number was probably not too bad.


I was a huge fan of our officials on tour though.  They did a great job, and were pretty damned patient for the most part when we, as players, were losing our minds.

[Mike_Young]

An ex tour player who is still involved in the golf business saw this thread and sent me a note saying he felt there would be blowback from many of the volunteer rules officials who were not players but had spent time studying rules and being involved in the golf community.  The blowback would be from not being needed as much.  That is the main point of the thread. I think he is dead on.....

Also as an example of what he called the "Barnie Fife" type rules dudes he said when he was in college he and Len Mattiace had a rules official call them over as soon as they reached the back of the 18th green at the end of their round and take their scorecards.  He told them he had been watching them on two holes and he knew what they were doing in the fairway when they were standing next to each other talking.  They said they asked" and what was that?".  He told them he had been watching them thru binoculars and knew they were discussing which club to hit.  They both laughed and told the guy the discussion was over.  He went on to tell me that for the 20% I said were dudes, they often will not play games with a tour player if they ever are in that situation but will often mess with a college player etc...As Pat mentioned, he agreed tour rules dudes were top notch...

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