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Steve_ Shaffer

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What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area? Philmont sold!
« on: February 01, 2017, 08:06:58 PM »
First White Manor members recently sold to Concert Golf:


http://www.golfincmagazine.com/content/concert-golf-recapitalizes-white-manor-cc


North Hills close to a deal with Club Corp. DuPont is considering a sale. Philmont  is possible!


 
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Whos-buying-up-PhillyWilmington-golf-courses-.html


And don't forget Meadowlands, Torresdale-Frankford and Woodcrest




« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 01:53:43 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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JESII

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 08:46:25 PM »
Hi Steve!


I think there are too many clubs for the current number of member candidates...the recent capitalizations are a surprise turn in that these clubs may now be the healthiest, putting the long tenured member owned clubs at a disadvantage.


If a few had closed shop, the others would have presumably become stronger. As is, there is essentially the same ratio of clubs to candidates. Some will simply be run more efficiently than in the past.
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Mike_Young

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 08:53:06 PM »
I would assume some of the companies wishing to buy these places could care less about the club but see that they may now be healthy and they can place them in a larger portfolio allowing for a proforma on say $50 mill-$100 mill of value....They get an equity firm to give them money for a proforma showing 20% return etc...it's all a game with these companies...rake some off and play with them for a few years...do a few Crittendon shows...be listed in the "Top 40 most powerful people in golf" scene and then sell them to the next guy who does the same things....the problem is when the music stops and someone doesn't have a seat.
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mike_malone

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 10:35:45 PM »
We are puting the pedal to the medal at Rolling Green
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BCowan

Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 11:14:46 AM »
Dear Hardcore Golfer,

    We apologize for looking down on you, for telling you, you don't have enough coin, for making you pay for all these frivolous non Golf related items that caused red numbers, for not realizing there is a big world out there and this ain't our daddy's club anymore.  Would you please accept out apology for we were late to the realization that this isn't the 1950's anymore.  Please give us a chance to earn your business and to change your opinion of us. 

-Signed Club President
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Ed Brzezowski

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 11:23:03 AM »
I believe Philmont is a done deal.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 11:31:16 AM »
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 11:50:22 AM »
As a joiner myself I often find the bright side to these changes beyond a simple members control. Often by accident.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2017, 12:20:36 PM »
This is how Concert Golf does it: All cash deals, no member assessments...


http://concertgolfpartners.com/equity-clubs.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
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Mark Provenzano

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 01:32:12 PM »
Quote from: Jim Sullivan on February 01, 2017, 08:46:25 PM
Hi Steve!


I think there are too many clubs for the current number of member candidates...the recent capitalizations are a surprise turn in that these clubs may now be the healthiest, putting the long tenured member owned clubs at a disadvantage.


If a few had closed shop, the others would have presumably become stronger. As is, there is essentially the same ratio of clubs to candidates. Some will simply be run more efficiently than in the past.

This...I haven't lived in Philly in a while, but when I left there were 5 private clubs within 3 miles of my house, 15+ within 7 miles, 25 or more within 9 miles. Not that all were available to join, but for those interested there were many options. Maybe too many.
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Jaeger Kovich

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 08:08:50 PM »
Everything I have heard about the changes since Concert Golf took over at White Manor is really really bad news. Based on what I am hearing I am going to go check it out while I am not too far away, because I do not think it will exist in 10 years.


Stay away from the management companies!
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Tim Fitz

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 10:01:59 AM »
I have no experience with golf or country clubs in Philly, but fear some of the spots in the Chicago area could be headed in the same direction.

We lost a few clubs (e.g. Ravina Green, Green Acres) over the last couple of years.  While I don't have visibility into the membership numbers or finances of any club but mine, I am aware of a number of spots that have taken on CapEx projects (golf course, club house, and otherwise) over the last few years.  To the extent those projects involved the incurrence of debt that can't properly be serviced, I fear we could see the same phenomenon as Philly.  As Mark noticed regarding Philly, there are a significant number of clubs around the North Shore and the Western suburbs - perhaps too many for all to be sustained in the present environment.
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Mike Sweeney

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 10:47:25 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on February 01, 2017, 08:06:58 PM
First White Manor members recently sold to Concert Golf:

http://www.golfincmagazine.com/content/concert-golf-recapitalizes-white-manor-cc


North Hills close to a deal with Club Corp. DuPont is considering a sale. Philmont  is possible!


 
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Whos-buying-up-PhillyWilmington-golf-courses-.html


And don't forget Meadowlands, Torresdale-Frankford and Woodcrest


Steve and others,


I assume these clubs that are NOT taken over by another tax-exempt entity do lose their tax-exempt status? Specifically, White Manor would lose their tax exempt status as being in the for-profit portfolio of Concert Golf? Torresdale would keep their status as part of the tax exempt Union League?

Just curious.
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corey miller

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 10:55:17 AM »



Half the courses in the New York metro area would not exist if the local governing entities were willing to allow development in line with what the parcels are zoned for. 



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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »
@ Mike Sweeney


Tax Exemption  for a private club seems to apply to revenues of day to day activities:


http://info.legalzoom.com/benefits-501c7-taxexempt-club-21731.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

SB

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2017, 05:32:57 PM »
Concert and others are businesses.  They purchase the assets of the club and the non-profit entity is dissolved.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2017, 06:48:21 PM »
 Concert will pay federal and/or state income taxes if they show a profit.


Here's another way they created income:


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Golf-courses-sold-DuPont-White-Manor-Philmont-Concert-Golf.html


Concert finds other ways to raise cash. Members of the Golf Club of Amelia Island, in Florida, were surprised to see Concert negotiate with a mobile-phone service company to build a 130-foot tower after it took over the property, member David Lipo tells me. He expects Concert will exploit more revenue opportunities before scoring terminal profits in a "final sale."
Towers "are usually unpopular with the neighbors," Nanula acknowledges. But "we can hide the tower well, near the maintenance area.
Cutting deals with investors, these clubs are buying a few more years. Maybe longer, if high-end housing demand slows. Or young people suddenly take up golf. Fore!
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2017, 06:52:40 PM »
I was surprised to find that Bel Air C.C. has a cell tower on its grounds.  It's well hidden from the golf course, and the rent for it is not insubstantial, as that part of L.A. does not offer a lot of potential hosts.
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Mike Sweeney

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2017, 09:57:49 PM »
My guess is you will start to see clubs create a hybrid model similar to Augusta where the tournament is is a separate corporation:


http://www.masters.com/en_US/info/copyright/


For the For Profit club, they can create a not for profit entity where they host charity outings and maybe an amateur tournament. Then they can push a bunch of expenses over there in order to show profits in the for profit entity. Just a guess.
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archie_struthers

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 08:39:05 AM »
 ???




How are these guys paying their investors ?  Is it 3 or 4%'money or are they waiting for long term development rights?


Is White Manor a long time play for homesites ? I can see how Philmont has huge real,estate possibilities , whats the zoning if anyone knows . Deed restrictions ?
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Ed Brzezowski

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2017, 09:48:25 AM »
Archie as far as Philmont it think the land is unrestricted, or so I have been told by folks who know.. I would assume the same for White Manor.
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Carl Nichols

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2017, 11:23:55 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 03, 2017, 06:52:40 PM
I was surprised to find that Bel Air C.C. has a cell tower on its grounds.  It's well hidden from the golf course, and the rent for it is not insubstantial, as that part of L.A. does not offer a lot of potential hosts.


We border the 270/beltway spur in Bethesda, MD [which, when it was built, led to our losing a couple of holes and is why our property is so tight].  We have two towers that sit on the edge of our property right next to the highway--they're reasonably well hidden, and in any event, the beltway is right there also.  The lease payments can be pretty significant.
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archie_struthers

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2017, 07:45:06 PM »
 ::) ???




C'MON GUYS


I know we have some great real estate minds on the board. Are they just stockpiling land for future development ? Any one know if the land stays as golf course if they hit some revenue number or if its a short term deed restriction?  Just trying to comprende as to how and why???
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2017, 07:56:46 PM »
@ Archie


It's possible they are stockpiling land for sale in the future to developers but take a look at the website of the company that's buying all these clubs:


http://concertgolfpartners.com/
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

archie_struthers

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Re: What's happening to private clubs in the Philadelphia area?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2017, 08:09:55 AM »





Hey Steve , read as much as Possible online  before posting . Guess will have to call call them and see just how they justify acquisitions .


Could it be a replay of the late '90's golf REITS.   Seems different
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 07:34:13 AM by archie_struthers »
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