[Tim Fitz]

How about a par three, par four and par five from the same golf course...Berkshire Country Club in Reading, PA.

#4-Par five with an incredible greensite.

#6-Par three over a ravine to another terrific greensite.

#8-Short par four (Alps) with a Principal's Nose bunker complex.

Where are my Philly guys on this?

I'll give you three in a row 14-16 at Olympia Fields. 14 is a brawny 460 yard two shotter with a meandering creek in play. 15 is a par 5 rides the top of the ridge, sharply bending to the right to a tough to read green. 16 is around 200 yards straight downhill over the creek to a well protected putting surface. In terms of ably using the natural landforms this might be the best three hole three different par holes stretch in Chicagoland.

Agreed Terry. I really like 13 as well.

And while we are at it, I think 12 is terrific.  It gets overshadowed by 3 and 14, but 12 is a great hole in its own right.

[Terry Lavin]

12 is a key hole because from that moment, the course assumes its dominant architectural interest, involving the best land on what was initially 1000 acres and this was the last of four courses built. 12 is a beguiling short par 4 with the creek taking driver out of most players' hands and the green set in a little bowl with the 13th tee perched above. 13 is an ingenious connector hole as its main purpose is to get you to the dramatic finish which begins on the 14th tee. It's a clever bit of routing by Park, to be sure.

[Nigel Islam]

12 is a key hole because from that moment, the course assumes its dominant architectural interest, involving the best land on what was initially 1000 acres and this was the last of four courses built. 12 is a beguiling short par 4 with the creek taking driver out of most players' hands and the green set in a little bowl with the 13th tee perched above. 13 is an ingenious connector hole as its main purpose is to get you to the dramatic finish which begins on the 14th tee. It's a clever bit of routing by Park, to be sure.

Agreed, I made a mess of twelve on my one play. The routing of the stretch from 12-16 is quite impressive paralleling the creek and the hill only to go back downhill at 16. I'd not thought of this being the best piece of the property left, but you are of course absolutely correct. The two Park courses I've played certainly exhibit superior routing skills. Thanks for pointing that out to be.

[BCowan]

Why no love for the 10th at Maidstone?

Ian,

   We need some help on a solid WPJ 5th hole.  Additional nominations as well...  We need to narrow down the holes that have 3-6 nominations too. 

[BCowan]

1.    ?  Battle Creek
2.    Glen Ridge, Flint GC
3.    Sylvania (3), Battle Creek (5), Red Run, Philmont, OF (N)
4.    Battle Creek (3), Berkshire, Shuttle Meadow
5.    ?
6.    Woodway, Philmont, Schuylkill, Berkshire, Shuttle Meadow
7.    Penn State (W), Woodway, Philmont, Schuylkill
8.    Woodway, Philmont, Berkshire
9.    Red Run, Maidstone, Philmont, New Haven
10.  ?
11.  Sylvania, Battle Creek, New Haven
12.  Sylvania
13.  Red Run, Flint GC
14.  OF (N), Maidstone, Penn State (W), Woodway, Sylvania
15.  OF (N)
16.  Battle Creek, Red Run, Philmont, New Haven, Schuylkill, OF (N), Woodway
17.  Battle Creek
18.  Sylvania, Red Run, Battle Creek, Glen Ridge, Shuttle Meadow

[Tim Martin]

I would scrap 18 at Shuttle Meadow for 18 at New Haven CC. For me 18 at Shuttle Meadow is a bland half par 5 and one of the weaker holes on the course. It gains a little interest with a back to front sloping green with a bunch of pin positions. New Haven's 18th at 568 yds playing uphill is a stout finisher with plenty of options. That said both holes allow you ample room to get in on the ground if you so choose.

[BCowan]

Thanks, I put Red Run 18 in and New Haven 11th in.   I think the 18th at Red Run is possibly it's best hole.   Going to go through photo tours today.  Harris, Cirba, Bausch, and Bueller?  5?  17?  Anyone

[MCirba]

Holes I'd nominate from Berkshire;

2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16.   

I know that's a lot but..

[BCowan]

Holes I'd nominate from Berkshire;

2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16.   

I know that's a lot but..

What about #4?  How does this list look?  Is the 5 par 3's and 5's a legit WPJ trademark?  Sylvania originally had 7 par 5's. 

[MCirba]

Hole #4 at Berkshire is a terrific, reachable par five as well with a wild, angled green so I'm on board there. 

From Indiana CC (PA) I'd recommend for consideration holes 11, 12, and 13.   

Hoping to see Archie Struthers weigh on with his favorites from Greate Bay.   

[BCowan]

Hoping to see Archie Struthers weigh on with his favorites from Greate Bay.

+1, Archie

[Tim Martin]

Hole #4 at Berkshire is a terrific, reachable par five as well with a wild, angled green so I'm on board there. 

From Indiana CC (PA) I'd recommend for consideration holes 11, 12, and 13.   

Hoping to see Archie Struthers weigh on with his favorites from Greate Bay.

Greate Bay has plenty of good holes. What say you Archie?

[Brian Finn]

I haven't played enough WPJ courses to weigh in on all holes, but I'd be surprised if there are many better holes than:

9th at Maidstone
12th at Sylvania
14th at Maidstone

I'm glad to see these 3 are all in your latest iteration - I imagine they should stay there.

I was also a very big fan of the 5th hole at Sylvania.  If I read correctly, you did not have many candidates for #5 in the WPJ eclectic, so I'd consider Sylvania.

[BCowan]

Back to the drawing board....  Bold means you are locked in, no turning back 

1.    Red Run 5 
2.    Flint                                     3
3.    Olympia Fields N               4
4.    Berkshire                           5
5.    Minneapolis                      4
6.    Woodway 4
7.    Penn State (W)                 3     
8.    Woodway 4
9.    Maidstone                          4   

10.  Maidstone 4
11.  Indiana 5
12.  Sylvania                             4
13.  Berkshire 4
14.  Maidstone                           3
15.  Olympia Fields N                5
16.  Philmont 4
17.  Sylvania 5
18.  Battle Creek                        4

[Tim Martin]

I haven't played enough WPJ courses to weigh in on all holes, but I'd be surprised if there are many better holes than:

9th at Maidstone
12th at Sylvania
14th at Maidstone

I'm glad to see these 3 are all in your latest iteration - I imagine they should stay there.

I was also a very big fan of the 5th hole at Sylvania.  If I read correctly, you did not have many candidates for #5 in the WPJ eclectic, so I'd consider Sylvania.

Brian-I think Maidstone is loaded with good holes and may only be burdened by a so so starter and finisher.

[Morgan Clawson]

Minneapolis Golf Club

Holes 5 and 10

[BCowan]

Morgan,


   Thanks, I added MGC to the 5th hole slot.  Do you have any photos?

[BCowan]

below

[BCowan]

Updated list

1.    New Haven                          4
2.    Flint                                        3
3.    Olympia Fields N                4
4.    Berkshire                              5
5.    Minneapolis                         4
6.    Greate Bay                             5
7.    Penn State (W)                    3     
8.    Woodway                              4
9.    Maidstone                           4   

10.  Maidstone                            4
11.  Indiana                                  5
12.  Sylvania                               4
13.                             
14.  Maidstone                           3
15.  Olympia Fields N               5
16.  Philmont                               4
17.  Red Run                               3
18.  Battle Creek                        4

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


Since you threw out my Canadian interloper, I'll add my vote for Sylvania's 12th.  A a semi-blind tee shot over a crosswise ridge and then down to a beautifully sited, fully visible green.  Great rolling land from tee to green.  It's also in the center of the course and nothing outside interferes with the experience of that hole and viewing all golf around you.


I have not so much WP experience as others on this thread, but of the Detroit area courses that claim Park: Red Run, Pine Lake, and Old Meadowbrook, I'd certainly give Sylvania the nod over them.


Anthony

[BCowan]

Ben:


Since you threw out my Canadian interloper, I'll add my vote for Sylvania's 12th.  A a semi-blind tee shot over a crosswise ridge and then down to a beautifully sited, fully visible green.  Great rolling land from tee to green.  It's also in the center of the course and nothing outside interferes with the experience of that hole and viewing all golf around you.


I have not so much WP experience as others on this thread, but of the Detroit area courses that claim Park: Red Run, Pine Lake, and Old Meadowbrook, I'd certainly give Sylvania the nod over them.


Anthony

I'm disappointed you didn't do a separate thread on the 2nd at Weston    .   It's a crime that you have lived so long in the state of Michigan and have not played Battle Creek.   

How about the 17th at Red Run for a nomination? 
 

[Ryan Taylor]

How about the 17th at Red Run for a nomination? 

17 is one of the better if not the best Par 3 at Red Run. A solid mid-long iron is required with deep bunkers surrounding the green. The green has some nice movement with ridges in the back left and right front. Hepner introduced a large chipping area to the right of the green which provides a bailout area and introduces some variety. The large trees framing the back of the green need removed and have been suggested for removal by Hepner. Best pin locations are back left, back right, front left and front right. I would like to see the green squared up as it's being expanded and recaptured to original size.

[BCowan]

Back to the drawing board....  Bold means you are locked in, no turning back 

1.    New Haven                          4
2.    Flint                                        3
3.    Olympia Fields N                4
4.    Berkshire                              5
5.    Minneapolis                         4
6.    Greate Bay                             5
7.    Penn State (W)                    3     
8.    Woodway                              4
9.    Maidstone                           4   

10.  Maidstone                            4
11.  Indiana                                  5
12.  Sylvania                               4
13.                               
14.  Maidstone                           3
15.  Olympia Fields N               5
16.  Philmont                               4
17.  Red Run                                3
18.  Battle Creek                        4

Missing Shuttle Meadow and Schuylkill (only 9 park holes)

[Joe Bausch]

Took some time and I've culled and rehabbed my 2010 photo album of Schuylkill CC:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Schuylkill/index.html

[BCowan]

Took some time and I've culled and rehabbed my 2010 photo album of Schuylkill CC:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Schuylkill/index.html

Gold Standard,

    Great stuff as always.  According to Mr Harris, (Park holes left 1, 5-7, 14-18)-Kyle Harris notes
That leaves us with the 6th a stout 1 shooter as only option left.  Back to back par 3's might be in order with Penn State 7th.  Which would mean I'd be looking for a Par 5 8th....  Which means Woodway is left with 8, 10, or 13 potential slot.  thoughts?

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