Skyline greens

[Tommy Williamsen]

I brought a friend to Ballyhack this past summer. When we get to number two he hated the third shot because he didn't have anything in the near background "to define the distance to the hole." (Unfortunately I do not have a good picture of the shot.) He had a difficult time believing the distance, even though he measured it with a device. "This is dumb design." I told him that a skyline green was an old device that architects used to confuse players. It didn't make any difference. What are your favorites? What do you think of them? Are there many par three skyline greens?

[Jimmy Chandler]

Tommy --


Funny your friend hates that shot, which is my favorite at Ballyhack, and is one of my favorite holes in golf, period. Probably my favorite par 5.


As to the substance of his complaint: I can't think of anything more ridiculous, especially with all the info we now have to measure the distance of a shot. My personal bias is that I'm terrible at judging distances, so I try to ignore what a shot looks like and just believe the numbers (or my experience on a hole, once I have played the course multiple times).


More importantly, visual deception is of course one of the great tools in the architect's toolbox.


One of my favorite designs is the dogleg par 4 that reveals the infinity green only as the golfer walks to his approach shot. Famously, Bandon Dunes 4th does this brilliantly. An example very few here would be familiar with, but you may have played Tommy, is the 15th at Stonewall in Manassas, VA. (Sorry I couldn't find any good photos of this.)

[Martin Lehmann]

The Castle Course in St. Andrews has some beautiful infinity greens with the North Sea as background.

[Scott Weersing]

I am not sure you need a background for no. 2 skyline green at Ballyhack because there is a bunker built into the front of the green that can tell you the distance. The greens at Ballyhack are firm so you would aim right or left of the bunker.


One of my favorite skyline greens is no. 13 at Pacific Dunes. I also like no. 7 at Old Mac. I cannot think of any uphill, skyline greens on par 3s because designers usually like to have downhill par 3s instead.


Would no. 11 Eden at the Old Course count for a skyline green on a par 3? http://f.tqn.com/y/golf/1/S/i/G/1/old_course_11.jpg

[JJShanley]

17 at Braid Hills might well count as a skyline green with a skyline.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Interesting Scott, I always thought the bunker in front of two gave me a false feeling for distance. I have hit into the bunker more times than I want to count. Maybe that's why I've lost the George Cup the last two years and you've won!

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Number 9 at Pine Valley. Heard they've removed many, if not most of the trees from behind the green (left one) to reinstate the Skyline nature of that green.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Barnbougle Dunes #10 has probably the best Skyline Green I have seen so far. And I loved #8 at Sand Valley, a Par 3.

[David Davis]

Two nice ones, #10 at Royal St. Georges. If I remember correctly and the best hole at Nine Bridges Jeju in South Korea IMO was a short par 4 with a great skyline green. I think the hole was number 7 but not 100% certain.

[Jimmy Chandler]

Is Bandon Dunes #15 an uphill par 3 skyline green?

[RJ_Daley]

I think skylines are a great design concept and love to see them on a course and how the archie presents them.  Could be a second or third shot just as well as a tee ball on par 3.  Surrounds design is also crucial.  I've seen so many of varying presentations, it would be hard to pick a favorite.  Although 13 Sand Hills comes to mind readily. 

[Sam Krume]

Two par 3's with skyline greens. I love #9 at Renaissance and also #7 at Hankley

[Michael Graham]

The 6th on Gullane no. 1 is a pretty good example of a skyline green as the hole rises to to the top of Gullane Hill.

[E P Purmort]

The 7th at Oyster Harbors is a fine example.

The fact that it is followed by nearly the exact opposite on the 8th is interesting too.

[Scott Weersing]

Is Bandon Dunes #15 an uphill par 3 skyline green?

Yes, that would be a skyline green. We tend to forget about it because we only see the deepest bunker in the world front of the green.

[Mike_Young]

These are Hole 14 at Cateechee Glf Club, Hartwell, Ga...can see a long way from this green..

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike - don't you mean hole #4? How soon we forget! 


It's one of my very favorite skyline green holes!

[BCrosby]

Whatever its number, a terrifically fun hole.


One of the few, true skyline greens in the region.


Bob

[BCowan]

MY,

    Some great photography work there.  The maint meld looks off the chart.  I'd give anything to hit a 2 iron or green side bumpers off those fairways 

[David Davis]

Two nice ones, #10 at Royal St. Georges. If I remember correctly and the best hole at Nine Bridges Jeju in South Korea IMO was a short par 4 with a great skyline green. I think the hole was number 7 but not 100% certain.

I found a couple photos of one of them I had mentioned. This is the one from Nine Bridges which I thought was maybe cool to post since I don't think the majority will get there to see it in person.














As previously mentioned it was my favorite hole and favorite green on the course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Those are two great examples. Thanks.

[David Davis]

Oh and here is the one from Royal St. Georges. This one to me feels really tough to judge the distance. I think because you can't see the surface and the wind is always blowing pretty good. Also I always end up approaching it from the left side which if I remember correctly is way lower.

[Thomas Dai]

I rather like the 2nd at Dooks.
Wonderful view from the top.

(photo from Ed Tilley's photo-tour)
atb

[Chris Roselle]

My favorite is the 5th at  Sleepy Hollow CC.  Although this picture is from the top of the hill you still get the skyline sense.

 

This is the view for the longer hitters who drive it to the bottom of the hill.   

[jim_lewis]

The green on the short par 4 third hole on Pinehurst No. 2 is not as dramatic as most of those pictured above, but it is a different target since the trees behind it were removed prior to the 1999 US Open. The approach shot is usually a very short iron and distance control is critical to avoid a severe drop off behind the green. Many members were upset when the trees were removed, but it is a much better hole. Anything that makes a wedge shot more challenging is probably a good thing.