News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Playing to all points of the compass
« on: January 11, 2017, 08:35:27 PM »
I recently discovered Google Compass, which allows you to plot exactly which direction on the compass a shot or hole plays in.

Having mucked around with it a bit over the holidays, looking at different courses, I wonder if there is another course that so completely hits every point on the compass as New South Wales GC does.

See below a visualisation I made of how the shots at NSWGC plot onto a compass.

Obviously a notable feature of NSWGC is how the par 3s (circled in red) and par 5s (circled in green) "all play to the four points of the compass".

This shows that is very true of the par 5s but not quite as strictly of the par threes, though the 6th plays much more to the west from the mainland white and red tees than it does from the island blue tee.

For dogleg holes, the drive "d" and approach "a" are marked separately.

Within the inner circle is the number of shots played within each segment of the compass, and it is remarkably balanced the whole way around.

Just goes to show in another way the brilliance of both Dr MacKenzie and Eric Apperly in routing the course around such a windy site.



Wind rose for Sydney Airport (a couple of kilometres from NSWGC) showing typical winds.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 05:28:34 PM by Scott Warren »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 09:49:36 PM »
A terrific bit of work there, Scott - thank you. Having the holes, tee shots and approaches numbered like that is an added bonus, allowing me to imagine the routing and my movements playing the course not in terms of a specific site or even any kind of terrestrial setting, but in 'space' as it were, some pure eternal realm characterized by the purity of mathematics.  It's like getting anx-ray into Dr Mac's hidden/internal understanding of spatial relationships and sense of flow. Very cool. I think you're onto something quite special. Thanks again
Petrr

Scott Champion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 11:39:27 PM »
Interesting chart...NSWGC is certainly well balanced in that respect. I wonder how much this was planned versus being a by-product of the holes that piece of land yielded. Would be great to find any commentary by MacKenzie/Apperley on this?
An interesting comparison of this chart would be TOC and Muirfield. Obviously, two classic but very different routing 'templates' for lack of a better word. And RMW.
IMO there is certainly merit in having variety in the direction of holes (particularly par3/5's - and more so on a windy site). But it is an interesting decision to make on how much weight should be placed on this, compared to finding the best collection of holes the land can provide. Obviously the shape and make up of a site is going to determine how feasible it is to achieve this.
Played Lost Farm in December in a 3-4 club north-westerly, and it was quite noticeable that all the par 3's (exc. extra holes) played into the wind - albeit in slightly different directions.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 11:55:52 PM »
If I remember correctly, NONE of the par-3's at NSW were laid out in MacKenzie's plan ... Although I don't know which direction they played.


Personally I don't care much for this dictum.  The par 3 holes are four approach shots out of 18 and making too many rules for them as a set can negatively affect the routing of the other holes.  There are plenty of great courses which violate this ideal.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 12:21:58 AM »
Correct, Tom. The four par threes are all Apperly's.

Though the "four points of the compass" aspect of NSW's 3s and 5s is often enthused as a strength in of itself, that wasn't the point I was making above -- simply noting that the 3s are not as "four points" as they're stated to be, really they're (in order) S, NW, ENE, N.

Forgetting the balance of directions within holes-of-a-par, I do enjoy a good variety in directions of play across the 18 holes on a windy site.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 01:41:47 PM »
Tom,


I'm going to challenge your assessment that a par 3 is simply another approach shot.


The variety of where a drive ends up on a par four creates a wholly different dynamic than the specific placement of a tee box.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 01:47:24 PM »
That's not to say I think you minimize variety...it was just surprising to see you conflate par 3's with par 4/5 approach shots.

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 08:38:27 AM »
Would a figure-eight routing be the easiest way to hit as many compass points as possible?

WW

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 09:33:24 AM »
The Par 5 part of this is what I find most interesting.  So often the property dictates where these holes can be located and they are in so often in close proximity (often side by side running opposite directions).


More challenging in my opinion than four the traditional four points of the compass is one of the below four options.  As with two pairs of back to back holes you can get E/W and N//S.



N or S
W or E
SW or NE
SE or NW

Proud member of a Doak 3.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM »
Would a figure-eight routing be the easiest way to hit as many compass points as possible?

WW

Interesting thought, W2.  Here is the hole-sequencing at the Ocean Course at Kiawah:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/OceanCourse/pages/page_4.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 06:12:43 AM »
Perhaps a wide one. The main figure-eights that come to mind are North Berwick West Links & Barnbougle Dunes and both are essentially out-and-back routings with a crossover in the middle.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 12:55:27 PM »
Mark Parsinen seems quite keen on the figure 8 routing with Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart both like that.


Niall

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing to all points of the compass
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 01:16:35 PM »
There area also courses (Muirfield, Harding Park, Sonoma) where one of the nines encircles the other nine. That is another way to pay to all points on the compass.