News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« on: January 09, 2017, 10:14:57 AM »

Happily, our seasonal greetings become rote: thanks for a great year, post civilly and stick to the subject matter of golf course architecture. Though mundane, it remains a winning formula! Why change? For instance, I once went to a shaving bowl, brush and straight edge razor. Like my leather golf bag, sounded cool in a retro way but in this instance, I was wrong as I ended up being late for appointments, bleeding and stuck looking in the mirror at a face that is 'hard to describe but easy to forget.' :-[

Why complicate things?! More so than ever, GolfClubAtlas is ideally positioned to capture and portray the uncluttered essence of the game we love. Having shunned commercial interests and backed by the generosity of the 170 people who elected to donate in 2016, we stand alone. Other media have forsaken the player who enjoys a quiet hit with friends in a secluded pocket of nature. They try and doll it up, needlessly trying to glamorize it. Yet, the game isn't meant to be complicated or onerous. I grew up in Richmond, Va where Patrick Henry uttered something more or less like - 'Give me Brora or give me death!'  To that end, the core offerings of GolfClubAtlas remain unchanged from its origins; it is just that the content gets better and better thanks to each of you!

GCA.com is well past achieving critical mass. I know where we are read around the world and it is an honor but one that comes with responsibility. There's a burden (I like to think a delightful one) on each poster to make his words count. We have 1,665 registered posters and we are always seeking to add those who genuinely care about discussing architecture (as opposed to those entranced by padding their play list or furthering their own blog/interests). Before hitting the post button, ask if you are adding to the discussion. We are all busy and no one likes separating the 'wheat from the chaff.' Take a look at your last 20 posts and you'll know instantly if you are a Chatty Kathy or a facilitator of the discussion of golf course architecture.

The tenor of the Discussion Group is the best it has ever been. We are less bellicose and more congenial which is the way to foster intellectual debate. Living close to Fort Bragg, I know and hear of deeds that define toughness. Funnily enough, typing about golf course architecture is low on that list, so hard to imagine a great reason to puff out your chest as you type. S & G's  haunting lyrics - 'people talking without speaking, people hearing without listening' - need not apply here. We needn't bounce from topic to topic superficially; we have the luxury to slow down, drill down and reach meaningful depths. In many ways, we are the 'anti-web website.' Manners matter, quality counts - page views don't in our commercial free environment.

I thought 'we' had made great progress over our first 16 years in altering how the world defines great architecture. And then Golf Digest released their 2017 ranking, proving me incredibly naive!  >:(  A great playing experience, a great clubhouse and great architecture sometimes go hand in hand - but frequently don't.  It is a disservice to the game when a prominent magazine masquerades a list of large, expensive clubhouses under the banner of great courses. Heck, my favorite clubhouse in America (Newport CC) doesn't even have a kitchen! Our fight goes on!!

As for 2017, I hope people will pair off and follow the example of the Mickle/Morrissett debate about the tree on hole 4 at Mid Pines. For those that missed it, Jay and I took opposite sides on the merit of a pine tree 70 yards from the green and argued our respective points. Many weighed-in and it became an instant GCA classic thread and one that epitomizes the thoughtful interaction we cherish. Jay still thinks he won but we all know the truth! Regardless, the Discussion Group is the perfect vehicle for such point/counter-point discussions and I hope to have the opportunity to work with pairs of people to stick one such thread to the top each month. How neat would it be if two architects debated a topic? Also, we hope more people will contribute detailed In My Opinion pieces. Note: we only publish original material, not articles reprised from other publications.

Two years ago, Ben, Joe and I arbitrarily decided that 50,000 threads were sufficient to cover the subject matter of golf course architecture. For that reason, I have deleted ~ 110 pages from the Discussion Group over the past 2 years. Examples include non-architecture threads, about two hundred Tiger threads, ones with defunct photo links, etc. Please email me at rmorrissett@cabotlinks.com if you find ones of no merit. I am pleased to report that this year the culling process is much, much slower to find such outliers. Put another way, the quality of existing threads is at an all-time high. That statement might surprise people but it is emphatically true. People suggest that I don't read my own web site but that is erroneous. I am up at 500am most mornings working behind the scenes to make the content the most meaningful it can be.

To that end, I have a question: who thinks it is a good idea to disable the new thread button for two weeks this winter? By doing so, we would encourage everyone to root around the archives and bring forward worthwhile past topics by adding fresh material. Plus, everyone would gain a better appreciation for the wealth of information that we house. Recently, a man from Mayfield CC signed-on and was pleased to receive from me an old thread by Tom Macwood in which Harry Vardon named Mayfield his favorite course in America. It's very neat to re-read that one, especially since Tom is no longer with us to bring forth such juicy morsels. Let us know if freezing the new thread button for two weeks is worth trying.

While we are fans of laissez-faire, Joe, Ben and I also think that doing something different from time to time is healthy and in the board's best interest. The biggest threat that we face is complacency and not thinking outside the box. We have seen magazines fall into ruts and lose their ability to inform and captivate. Our profiles on Culver, the Isle of Harris and The Loop are meant to demonstrate that golf doesn't have to be some pre-packaged, one size fits all offering.

I especially want to thank Chris Buie for his technical help with Word Press and photos, Joe for editing my drivel, and all of you for your lasting support and good wishes! These are fabulous times with artisanal work being performed in the field by people with a genuine feel for the land; we look forward to giving such people a platform to share the merits of their (often times inexpensive) work. Bye-bye the days of slapping down a cad-cam design and moving on.

If we don't mess up, simplicity will remain at the heart of our message this year. We will be profiling golf in places like Iowa and Maine and Feature Interviews will come from Australia, Scotland and Wisconsin. Our battle for capturing the timeless joys derived from great architecture marches on - come along!

Ben, Joe & Ran
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 06:29:10 AM by Ran Morrissett »

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 10:54:57 AM »
If we don't mess up, simplicity will remain at the heart of our message this year. We will be profiling golf in places like Iowa and Maine and Feature Interviews will come from Australia, Scotland and Wisconsin. Our battle for capturing the timeless joys derived from great architecture marches on - come along!Ben, Joe & Ran



After many years on GCA, the weekend snow storm and a bit of the flu reminded me how enjoyable the site can be. My thoughts are:


1) Yes, try the "no new topic" experiment. I actually started two over the weekend, but I could have tied them into old threads.


2) The Mainers on GCA and elsewhere allow me on their golf courses, but they do not invite me into their secret clubs and handshakes. My favorites to date are:
  • Prouts Neck
  • Cape Arundel
  • Northeast Harbor (on Acadia)
  • Kebo (on Acadia)
  • Wilson Lake - 9 hole

3) 2016 brought a 60 at Yale, is 59 in store for 2017? - http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-golf/2016-17/releases/20161009t7xtsc

4) Who is Joe? I did google and see he is a Golf Magazine panelist and a doctor. Maybe a "Get to know Joe" interview? Maybe I missed it last year.


5) A 2017 donation in honor of Goat Hill (CA) was sent to Paypal over the weekend. Let me know if it did not arrive.


Thanks
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 11:12:16 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 01:09:52 PM »
Ran,


Has any thought been given to updating the course reviews, specifically with regard to the images?  I only bring it up because it seems like something that could be crowd sourced, and not any additional work on your end aside from adding them to the site.  For example, I'd venture to guess that there are a number of people who could take updated pictures of Kingsley, probably replacing the exact pictures you have on the current profile (which itself doesn't really need updating).  Doing so might capture some of the subtle changes (the pictures of the 6th and 16th come to mind), as well as making use of the technology upgrades over the last 10-15 years.  It seems like the pictures on the newer profiles are much more vivid.  Not sure if it would be a technical nightmare, and if so, probably not worth it.  Just a thought.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 01:29:40 PM »
Yes,  try it for two weeks....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Paul Stockert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 02:26:49 PM »
Thanks for all the work and a great year of content!  As far as driving traffic to old posts, loved that you pointed to a good one in your year end note.  If you do take a couple weeks off, maybe the true GCA forum virtuosos would be willing to highlight some of their favorite threads over the years for those of us that wouldn't know what to search for.


Thanks!
PJ
~ PJ

“Golf... is the infallible test. The man who can go into a patch of rough alone, with the knowledge that only God is watching him, and play his ball where it lies, is the man who will serve you faithfully and well.”
― P.G. Wodehouse

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 02:33:55 PM »
I'm not sure I see the reason for turning off the ability to post new threads for two weeks. If you think there are viable old threads, then why impose only a two-week moratorium? I say leave well enough alone.

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 03:03:11 PM »
Thank you Ran, Joe and Ben for your commitment to...Make GCA great again!
 
 
TS

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 04:26:55 PM »
Ran,


As always, thanks for an incredible website and for letting me be a part of this crazy community for so long.  I think I'll side with Hoover and say "let it be" relative to the new thread button and simply ask folks to peruse the older pages for "hidden gems" they may want to bring forward.


A Happy New Year to all!!!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 05:32:24 PM »
Thanks, Ran, for everything.

WW

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 05:43:38 PM »
Since I've started 13 threads and have well under 1000 posts in nine years, I think I can live with the moratorium on new threads.  A greater fear is a digital tap on the shoulder saying "we screwed up letting you in, take a hike."  Thanks to all for having me around.     

Sam Kestin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 07:23:34 PM »
Appreciate very much the spirit, the effort, the intellect and the passion of everyone here.


Can't thank Ben, Joe and Ran enough for their hard work and dedication to both the site itself as well as its subject matter.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 07:58:24 PM »
Simply put, I can't imagine how much I would've missed had I not hosted Ran, Mike Keiser and Rick Holland at Olympia in 2002. I've had my share of kerfuffles along the way but have learned a lot while hosting hundreds of folks from around the globe. It has stoked a healthy passion in this aging man.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 08:34:28 PM »
THANKYOU Ben, Joe, and Ran. 


Quite simply, you've got the best thing going on the Internet with Golf Club Atlas and it's diverse group of posters; the breadth of experience and knowledge displayed here is truly staggering.   


While I endorse the trial idea of periodically calling temporary halt(s) to new threads, as discussed before, I'd really like to see a listing of the thread titles extracted from the database... that'd certainly help cull more of the outliers from your core holdings or spur folks' thoughts to update old threads.


Hope to see ya in 2017!

s


ps  like these threads sorted from first 10 pages starting with A, B, & C.. but they need thread numbers..


     'Dazzle': deceiving the eye and brain.  New
(Titleist) Tour Players Design Golf Holes on the Fly
10 Seattle golf courses sold for $137M to Chinese conglomerate  New
13th at Emerald Reef Course, Emerald Bay, Great Exuma  New
2014 GCA Fantasy Golf League | Easier Than Ever to Play  New
2016 Photos of the Year Contest  New
2016 Photos of the Year: B-Sides  New
2016-17 Winter Tour: Braid's Brilliance at WELSHPOOL GC  New
2016-17 Winter Tour: Celtic Manor TWENTY TEN COURSE  New
2016-17 Winter Tour: Colt's LUFFENHAM HEATH GC  New
2017 5th Major at Dismal River
2017 Golf Digest Top 100/200  New
2017 Midwest Mashie: Event Location Open Thread  New
29% of non-golfing women want to play golf....  New
A brief aside - Architects do have their traits  New
A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings  New
A day at Bethpage  New
A Golf Course Can Be A Nuisance  New
A headline that might raise a few eyebrows...  New
A Request for Ran - Let's Interview the Clients/Developers  New
Abernethy Golf Club.  New
Abstract: Well-Intentioned Designs That Didn't Function as Planned?  New
Adobe Creek GC (Petaluma, CA) To Close  New
Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
Alameda Municipal/Chuck Corica (Earl Fry/North Course)  New
Alice Dye to receive ASGCA's Donald Ross Award  New
America's Great 18s  New
An Architecture Enthusiast's Ten Year Plan  New
An unofficial list of California courses that are closed ( 3rd update)  New
Anyone know about St. Louis's Log Cabin Club?  New
Aptos/Rio del Mar/Seascape - Locke, MacKenzie and Hunter  New
Archerfield ~ which one  New
architecture highlights technique and skill  New
Arthur Hills courses  New
As winter approaches...an interesting top 50 list to haggle over.  New
Ask an Architect  New
Askernish Trip  New
Augusta
Aurora golf course shots  New
Australia Climate by region compared to World - Parallels in Golf course design?  New
Australia on TV  New
Authenticating the Tillinghast Sketches update by Phil Young ...
Backdrops, views, angles and hole routing.  New
Bad Little 9  New
Baltimore CC  New
Bandon Dunes 2017  New
Bandon Dunes to add Sheep Ranch for possible Hanse project  New
Bandon/Pacific Composite Course  New
Barriers to taking up golf
Baseball Playoffs and Great Golf Combo Platter. Semi-OT  New
Bells Used on Blind Holes  New
Best architectural bang for your buck(pound/euro etc)/ reciprocal arrangement  New
Best new course for 2017  New
Best Nine Hole Courses/Clubs  New
Best non-links or heath in GB&I?  New
Black Mesa is an absolute gem...but is it doomed?  New
Breaking Down the Bendelow List  New
Brookside Canton - Sunday  New
Buda Cup - 2017 - Pre and Post Golf  New
Buda Cup - 2017 - Rye GC & Littlestone GC  New
Bunker in middle of green.  New
C'mon Man! Bunkers Edition  New
Cabot Cliffs condition  New
Calling club historians
Calling out the the Erin Hills supporters  New
Can you over undulate greens? Many think so!  New
Canal Shores Transformation - More Bunker Work  New
Cape Wickham King Island  New
Carnoustie vrs Royal County Down - a tough links comparison  New
Cassique/kiawah island club  New
Castle Course and Those Greens  New
Catch Kyle Franz on Morning Drive with Matt Ginella  New
CAVENDISH vs REDDISH VALE  New
CC Virginia this week on Champs Tour-Flynn restored by George  New
Ceibo Valley GC(Savignac) Las Olas, Ecuador  New
Celebrity Golf  New
ChampionsGate - Drainage Retention Areas  New
Chatham Hills, Westfield, Indiana  New
Colt as architect, 1914  New
Coming to Sydney? Here's what you need to know (updated Dec '16)  New
Community Country Club (Hills and Dales) - Dayton, OH - Reseach Help Requested  New
Concert Golf
Confidential Guide, Volume 3, Arrived Today  New
Congrats to The Loop...
Conveyance Systems  New
Coore & Crenshaw at Seminole - Video  New
Coore and Crenshaw's Worst Holes  New
corvallis golf news  New
Could the Ryder Cup be heading to BOLTON???!!!  New
County Louth/Baltray Changes  New
Courses are closing because...  New
Crazy Joe's Maintenance Meld
Culver Academies Golf Course profile updated  New
Cypress & Seminole to host Walker Cup in 2021 & 2025  New
 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 10:58:50 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Pallotta

Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2017, 08:59:32 PM »
Thank you.


On the moratorium: in my opinion, Ran, I think it will prove counterproductive. Yes, there are many excellent threads in the archives; but those threads are excellent because those who know/knew what they're talking about have already contributed what they knew.  If someone like me or a new member of the board pulled up a great thread, we'd either have the best among us simply repeating themselves or we'd have the best among us remaining silent instead of repeating themselves.
I think your gentle hint not to start idiotic new threads might prove enough...


Peter

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 05:21:54 AM »
In regard to a fortnight of zero new threads, tricky topic! Is fasting a terrible thing? I'm told that it is not, when monitored. Dieting has proven effective for those who have the willpower to stick to a regimen. Gluttons suffer from a lack or an intentional denial of the necessary willpower.


The moratorium has a Hunger Games air, with the exception that no one dies...unless you suggest that 25 ineffective, thread-diggers will be expelled after two weeks. That's not my suggestion, however...just musing.


Fast forward to January of 2018, assuming the internet still exists and the world has not ended. We might look back and say "What a silly thing that was that WE did, that 2-week moratorium." That's it. That's the worst we will say about it. Or we might say "Hey, moratorium time again. Can't wait to dig out a terrific old thread or six."


My vote goes to the moratorium. May the odds be ever in your favor.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 09:10:36 AM »

Yes to a moratorium.
I enjoy when older threads return.
I find they often lead to greater depth than new ones do.


On a personal note, I will continue to try and write one long form essay a year.
I've always figured it was the best way to add something deeper to the discussion.
Just haven't had time of recent.



With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 10:04:58 AM »
Gentlemen


Thank you for your efforts.


I commend Ian's comment regarding essays and in that regard I will endeavour to complete at least one of the half dozen or so essays I've started, although most are admittedly no more than a title.


Niall

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 10:32:33 AM »
Ben, Joe and Ran,


Thanks for your efforts. Not an easy task to keep things commercial free, takes a lot of passion, love and hours of blood, sweat and tears. A task that can seem thankless but luckily you have picked a niche where it is not.


Whatever will be, will be with regards to the moratorium. I do however, find accurate searching to be a bit of a challenge still when I want to find something specific. I have also taken to first searching for old threads, especially regarding new course visits. Give it two weeks and see how it goes.


All the best for 2017!



Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 11:39:23 AM »
THANK YOU, Ran, Ben and Joe. There is, was, and always will be much to enjoy with the website and the community within the Discussion Group. I will endeavor to add to the discussion of golf course architecture and to submit an In My Opinion piece that will knock me squarely off of the fence and into the slop.


Best, Cheers, Slainte, atb, Ciao ..

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2017, 12:50:33 PM »
THANK YOU, Ran, Ben and Joe. There is, was, and always will be much to enjoy with the website and the community within the Discussion Group. I will endeavor to add to the discussion of golf course architecture and to submit an In My Opinion piece that will knock me squarely off of the fence and into the slop.


Best, Cheers, Slainte, atb, Ciao ..


First you need to finish the photo tour of your UK trip :)


Thank you Ben, Joe and Ran for all the hard work to keep this site going.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2017, 06:50:35 PM »
Not sure what problem the moratorium on new threads is supposed to address. And which side effects it is going to have (such as: are old threads going to suffer by low-quality additions, when you take away "new thread" as the natural place for chit-chat?).

What I would suggest rather is a moratorium on posts per day. I get to make one post a day. I can earn additional posts, for example when someone quotes me.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2017, 08:00:11 PM »
Hmmm, no new threads for two weeks. That would be an interesting experiment to see what old threads we would add to.


It would remind of the blackout of .... (what year was that again?) when GCA was down for a couple of days and we all panicked. Well we talked about how we would not survive if GCA did not come back. So one problem with no new threads, is that we would talk about no new threads for two weeks.

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 09:23:51 PM »
Thanks Ben, Joe and Ran, this is one of my true escapes.


James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 08:06:31 PM »
Love the idea of limiting posts for a time.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THANK YOU from Ben, Joe and Ran
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 08:08:28 PM »
Love the idea of limiting posts for a time.


Why?