THE YANK'S NEW YEAR'S DAY PLUS 1 FAVOURED 50 GB&I

[Sean_A]

Unlike the top 50, this list is purely based on what I like for my own reasons which do include cost and location.  That said, all these courses are what I would consider at least Doak 5s.

1. Kington
2. St Enodoc
3. West Links
4. Sacred 9
5. Perranporth
6. Welshpool
7. Elie
8. Alwoodley
9. Cavendish
10. Pennard

11. Dornoch
12. Woking
13. Cruden Bay
14. Cleeve Cloud
15. Reddish Vale
16. Sutton Coldfield Winter Course
17. Burnham & Berrow Channel
18. Sandwich
19. TOC
20. Lahinch

21. Brora
22. Ganton
23. Leckford Old
24. Silloth on Solway
25. Cumberwell Park Orange 9
26. Aberdovey
27. Whittington Heath
28. Liphook
29. Oxford
30. Castle Stuart

31. Rye
32. Formby
33. Walton Heath Old
34. Hunstanton
35. Princes
36. Southerndown
37. Huntercombe
38. Brancaster
39. Saunton East
40. Northamptonshire Co

41. Addington
42. Edgbaston
43. St Andrews New
44. Harlech
45. Ballybunion Cashen
46. Portrush Valley Links
47. Carnoustie Burnside
48. Formby Ladies
49. Harborne
50. Hockley

~Average green fee: £74/$91....not cheap!


Biggest Bang for Buck:

1. Kington...£28

2. Perranporth...£38

3. Welshpool...£25

4. Cavendish...£31

5. Cleeve Cloud...£18


Courses most likely to drop off the list in 2017 due to cost:

1.  Walton Heath Old...£150

2. Rye....£125

3. Castle Stuart...£195

4. Whittington Heath...£55

5. Northamptonshire Co...£70

Courses Primed to jump onto list:

1. Strandhill

2. St Andrews Eden

3. Yelverton

4. Church Stretton

5. Woodhall Spa

Ciao

[David Davis]

I've managed 3 of your top 10...not bad. The rest are on my B list which I won't get to for another 1.5 years most likely.


I clearly know nothing about what drives your golfing mind not having seen these. I'll have to improve my efforts.



6 of your 2nd 10. Doing better there.

[Thomas Dai]

Fascinating list Sean.

Some comments based on the courses I've played or know -

A - No6 - Welshpool - I'd glad you found your way to WGC as I thought you might be rather enamoured of this Braid course - I reckon many others posting herein would be as well
B - nice rider at the bottom about price - which leads on to point C below
C - interesting to see how many 'second' courses you include - there's a lot of good and interesting golf, often at considerably less cost, available on the 'second' course at a bigger name location
D - pure length vrs interest - some nice 'shorter on the card but not necessarily easy' courses included - quirk and interest is/can be challenging and fun!
E - includes quite a number of lower-spec courses on higher ground, the sort of courses that have been almost laughed at for decades, so nice to see them getting some recognition/appreciation

Some I might have included - Dooks (getting pricey though), Yelverton, Dunfanaghy, Annesley at RCD, St Olaf at CB, Tadmarton Heath, Frilford Heath (Green).....and of course Minch Old!

Atb

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:


I was surprised to see Castle Stuart #3 on your other list, and now I'm baffled to see it #30 on this list.


I recognize that there is a difference between "best" and "favorite" courses, but the gap between the two has narrowed for me over the years, as I've become more confident in the notion that the best courses ARE the ones we like the most.  Usually, if there is a gap for me, it's a place like Carnoustie that I respect as a championship test, but am not good enough to enjoy ... but I'm a bit surprised if you have Castle Stuart placed as it is for those reasons.


So, I'm curious how your #3 course you've ever seen could finish behind the Orange 9 at Cumberwell Park.  Is it all on price?

[Sean_A]

Tom

I don't know, maybe half the time my favourites collide with what I think are best. 

I like Castle Stuart and think its a marvelous course.  However, it is a resort course and so suffers from a tradition/history/get on with instead of staff gathered at every corner to help me along aspect for one and for two, its bloody expensive...ridiculously priced.  I admit there is an element of how comfortable I feel at a course and that says more about me than the course, but it is my list. I spose if a course is good enough to interest me over many plays that extra bit of quality which makes it one of the best isn't worth a lot of money unless I am getting something very cool in return such as is the case with TOC, West Links and Sandwich for example....something which isn't easily found and harder still to replicate. Castle Stuart doesn't give me quite that sense of adventure. I spose, that is why I give Castle Stuart a 1* instead of higher recommendation like I do the others.  I certainly can't say the other courses are better...I have tried every type of hole matchups and the notion of TOC being better than Castle Stuart simply doesn't hold up.   

BTW...Cumberwell Park Orange is a very cool nine holer which is incredibly affordable to play.  Its really a marker post for where golf should be going not only in terms of design but how it was built. I could play courses like this for rest of my days.  Greatness is over-rated.

Ciao   

[Bob Montle]

I

[Bob Montle]

The absence of Machrihanish, North Berwick and Fraserburgh jumped out at me.

Machrihanish because of location?  Fees are certainly reasonable!!!
Brora and Fraserburgh are both out of the way and reasonably priced.

The real shocker is N. Berwick.  I'm curious why you haven't included it. Fees are about the same as the New Course.

[Adam Lawrence]

The absence of Machrihanish, North Berwick and Fraserburgh jumped out at me.

Machrihanish because of location?  Fees are certainly reasonable!!!
Brora and Fraserburgh are both out of the way and reasonably priced.

The real shocker is N. Berwick.  I'm curious why you haven't included it. Fees are about the same as the New Course.

Bob, N Berwick is Sean's number 3, he just always refers to it as the West Links.

[Bob Montle]

Thanks, Adam.

Whew!   (Blushing)

[BCowan]

I recognize that there is a difference between "best" and "favorite" courses, but the gap between the two has narrowed for me over the years, as I've become more confident in the notion that the best courses ARE the ones we like the most.

Tom,

    Is this view shared just in GB&I?  I don't think after 30 more years of Golf for myself I can say that in the states, but I could be wrong. 

[Sean_A]

Bob

I like West Links enough to join one of the local clubs. 

I have never played Fraserburgh, but its fairly high on my do do list 

At this moment Machrihanish does not make my top 50...mainly due to a back 9 which doesn't thrill me.  That said, even at #72 Machrihanish isn't all that far out of the top 50 because the courses are really bunched together.  I haven't been intrigued enough for a third visit yet, but maybe one day. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

moderator please delete this thread immediately

[Peter Pallotta]

Signore Arble -
By "favoured" do you mean that you *want* to play Kington instead of/more than Walton Heath, or that you *will* play it instead of/more than?

[Tony_Muldoon]

~Average green fee: £74/$91....not cheap!


Biggest Bang for Buck:

1. Kington...£28

2. Perranporth...£38

3. Welshpool...£25

4. Cavendish...£31

5. Cleeve Cloud...£18

 
 Heavy sigh...  One more time.
It is one of the signs of the coming of the apocalypse that price indicates that society currently places more value on siting on ones arse for 1.5hrs of premier football or indeed any ‘top’ sporting event or even attending a gig by any well known band, than it does a memorable trip to special golf course.  About 10 years ago I was asked if I wanted a spare ticket to the Spanish Grand Prix – face value £500!  Unlike the Golf Courses, these events are “sell out’s”.
So let’s look at it on an hourly basis. Which of your favourite restaurants can you eat and drink well at, for say (£74/2) £37?
It’s just that people have got lazy and they can’t see the value in getting out of doors, moving around and having a personal interaction with a game and their playing partners.  They’ll pay top dollar to let others do all that for them as long as they can watch with a horribly overpriced watered down beer in hand.
This is a site about GREAT Golf Architecture. I thank you for your lists and agree wholeheartedly about the 4 of your best bang for buck that I’ve played, but ALL the courses on your list offer outstanding VFM in 2017.  If the game was thriving, you be struggling to find ANY course you loved for a £74. So lap it up; when golf was cheap you could hear Maria Callas at the ROH for ‘3 and 9’ or buy the two tickets for Sinatra I got my mum in 1978, for £4. Current value for the top acts £300? 
I just looked outside and maybe its winter but the sky definitively seems lower than I recall …
PS what’s the +1, or am I missing some internet joke?

[Scott Warren]

Sean,

IMO, the notion of ranking by value for money falls over when you include courses in the middle of nowhere (Silloth, St Enodoc & Perranporth, anything north of Inverness) and rave about the value of the green fee but ignore the cost & time (which has its own cost) involved in getting there and back.

One-in-three people in the UK live in London & the Home Counties.

The suggestion that a very good course in Cornwall, Sutherland or Aberdeen is better value for them to play than a great course in Surrey that costs £50 more is mildly absurd.

I realise the list is yours and so you make the rules, but I think the output is more noise than signal when the audience doesn't really know what they're seeing.

Also, you forgot Deal

[Mark Pearce]

IMO, the notion of ranking by value for money falls over when you include courses in the middle of nowhere (Silloth, St Enodoc & Perranporth, anything north of Inverness) and rave about the value of the green fee but ignore the cost & time (which has its own cost) involved in getting there and back.

One-in-three people in the UK live in London & the Home Counties.

Most people know where they live and how long it takes to get somewhere.  Silloth is a shorter drive for me than any other course on Sean's list.  By your reasoning that means it is even better value for me.  If 30% of the population are thick enough to be willing to put up with living around London that's their lookout.

[Thomas Dai]

Price point - it would be interesting to be able compare variance in prices on say a decade-by-decade basis between some benchmark clubs. Perhaps harder to gather data these days what with two-4-one's, county cards, open comps etc. My suspicion is that the price point gap has proportionally widened over the decades between the top end and the rest but this is suspicion. Anyone have any data available to share?


As to living in The Smoke or the Home Counties generally, no thanks. 

atb

PS - Sean etc - if aiming to play Fraserburgh consider playing the nearby links at Inverallochy GC as well. Only a couple of miles away. It might surprise you.

[Sean_A]

Scott

Its all a bit of fun.

My favourites are not about price VS quality, more like price balanced with quality/history/ambience/beauty etc.  Sometimes, a course is compelling enough that I will pay the high green fee.  And yes, its my list and not a list for someone who lives in London where only 1 in 3 people live.  I make no claim that this list should be anybody else's or that people should take these as recommendations.  Its simply my list of courses where I am most happy to spend my dime without having to hassle people for favours etc.  I think the list also reflects that I am not nearly impressed with many of the so called best courses as some seem to be.  I have long said the gap in quality between 1st and 2nd tier courses is very narrow and in fact, somewhat blurred. 

Pietro

Absolutely...I would take Kington over WHO everyday of the week...Kington is a lot more fun.  In fact, I can play Kington all week for the price of a game at WHO    But I know what you mean and there are some courses which are very expensive that I would like to get back to for another look...Swinley Forest comes to mind.  That said, because I think Swinley is over-priced doesn't mean I can't give it a go.  When the current work is complete (maybe it already is?) I will give it a think. However, I wonder if I like the idea of Swinley more than Swinley itself.

Spangles

I don't understand your post other than to agree that yes, I think all the courses on my list offer good value for money.

All this said...my list changes all the time.  I can't predict how some courses will impact me on the first and sometimes further goes because I change with each and every course I play.  There is no way I would ever have dreamed that Welshpool would be as cool as it is or that Sutton Coldfield on the winter card is a great day out, but there you have it and that is why I continue to play new courses...one never knows what is around the corner.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Not just Machrihanish but there are no other courses from the West of Scotland. No Prestwick, or Turnberry, or Troon or Dundonald etc. What's going on here ? A clear bias by the looks of things 

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

The absence of Prestwick is astonishing, Niall.  Sean, is this an accidental omission?  If not, I'd love to hear your thinking.

[Sean_A]

Prestwick isn't far off the top 50 at #55.  I like the course a lot and understand the need for the sterness of holes 6-12, but I do think these as a group are not stellar.  Plus, the £170 tag is a bit much to swallow, but I do hope to return again.  The do a £240 deal for two games in the same week which is the way for me to approach Prestwick.  One other thing, I don't like the new arrangement of visitors being shunted upstairs in what feels like a drab tea room....not very welcoming of the club to create this division. Sort of defeats the purpose of visiting a place with history. When did the casual bar downstairs become off-limits to visitors? 

None of the other courses on the West coast are even close to making the top 50, but I haven't seen the new Turnberry.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

  If 30% of the population are thick enough to be willing to put up with living around London that's their lookout.

Phew had to read that 3x. For a moment I thought you had something against Londoners.


I quite agree, surburbanites are ghastly.

[Marc Haring]

BTW...Cumberwell Park Orange is a very cool nine holer which is incredibly affordable to play.  Its really a marker post for where golf should be going not only in terms of design but how it was built. I could play courses like this for rest of my days.  Greatness is over-rated.

Ciao   

Couldn't agree more. But then I would say that wouldn't I!

[Marc Haring]

I quite agree, surburbanites are ghastly.

They might be ghastly but they have some great golf courses.

[Jud_T]

Sean,


Love the list and look forward to it annually now. However, aside from the fact that it's free with a round at its big brother, what do you like about Bally Cashen?