Should Mike Keiser be in the Hall of Fame?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hard to make a apples/apples comparison with playing/staying at Bandon versus travelling the countryside in the UK with thoughtful stops at the most charming and inviting (and accessible) courses and inns. That can also be done in the US, of course, but with admittedly more challenging distance logistics.


A more direct comparison would be to contrast Bandon with: Gleneagles, Celtic Manor (barf), The Belfry, etc. or the other top dollar US multi-course, stay-and-play venues.


Personally, I'll take Bandon 10-0 over any other "destination resort".


My first visit was in May of 2000 when only Bandon Dunes was open and, yes, there WAS lodging available on-site at that time.


I dont know what the "Hall of Fame" is or from where it originates.
But Mike Keiser has been great for our game.

[Thomas Dai]

A more direct comparison would be to contrast Bandon with: Gleneagles, Celtic Manor (barf), The Belfry, etc. or the other top dollar US multi-course, stay-and-play venues.

Not sure these UK venues (resorts) are the most appropriate from a comparison point of view. My I suggest instead the likes of Turnberry, Trevose, Princes, Machrihanish (Dunes) and, in Ireland, Rosapenna with their own significant onsite accommodation and multi-course sandy seaside golf. There are others too although with varying levels of course/accommodation.
atb

[Kalen Braley]

I doubt there is a single poster who doesn't wish that he was standing on any of the five first tees at Bandon right this minute. There are few things better than reaching my left hand into the pocket of my rain pants for that grab of tee and ball while turning my back to all the B. S. in this world. 

Instead of "there, there" I prefer Peter Sellers'  "being there."

From behind the desk,

Bogey

Here here bogey...well said.

Rich,

If liking Bandon Resort is "wrong", then I'll gladly be wrong everyday...and twice on Sunday.

[Rich Goodale]

Kalen


Did i ever say liking Bandon was "wrong?"  If so, me culpa or it was a tyop. If not, please tell me that you are not addicted to fake news!

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen


Did i ever say liking Bandon was "wrong?"  If so, me culpa or it was a tyop. If not, please tell me that you are not addicted to fake news!

Rich,

Fair enough.  I implied it from your original statement and then when you said you'll never go back.  That sounds "wrong" to me 

"He promised golf as it used to be at Bandon and then back tracked once he found out how much money he could make by turning it into a Disney World resort."

[John Kavanaugh]

Rich,


It was me, I questioned designing a collection area near a greenside iconic bunker. At the time I'm sure the committee found it hilarious that a shot would roll back into such an interesting spot. Who could have thought so far ahead to realize that resort golfers would possess neither the skill or fortitude to resist or repair an impending chunk city. I apologize.

[John Cowden]

“Golf as it was meant to be...”.   Is there a place on any of the courses where that isn’t decidedly true?  Yes, we can miss the 1999 vibe, but we can’t regret that Bandon exists. 

[Kalen Braley]

John,


I think that was the reaction many of us were having.  Is Bandon the best public golf destination in the world?  Not sure...but its gotta be top 10 at least, if not top 5.

But then again, if I was Rich and lived in close proximity to St. Andrews, maybe I wouldn't bother traveling to Bandon either...

P.S.  I will agree again with JK.  For a course that many only play once, how is one to know to avoid that spot?  16 at PD, got me on this one.  Playing downwind I thought I was in the garden spot only to end up in a bare area with a near impossible shot.  In retrospect I should have played my 2nd sideways away from the ocean.

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:  Don't forget, Rich thinks The Old Course is heavily overrated, too.  Good company to be in though 😉

[Rich Goodale]

Tom


I might well have said "heavily" overrated, but that was in the distant GCA past when was only a wee bockle in my mid 50's. I've always thought that the course had too many blind shots, particularly in 2-7, but to each his own.


Quite frankly, I do not care (and never really did) about ratings and rankings, particular in this age where you and a few others are stretching the envelope of greatness, architecturally, at least.  What I do care about is playability for all reasonably good golfers, walkability, quick play, interesting features and good 19th holes with good camaraderie.


There are few and declining numbers of these places, Imho.


Rich

[Kalen Braley]

Rich,

Not to beat a dead horse...but when you said this, how does Bandon not excel in these categories!

"What I do care about is playability for all reasonably good golfers, walkability, quick play, interesting features and good 19th holes with good camaraderie."

[corey miller]

Might Bandon fail when it comes to quick play?  I thought my rounds there were a little slow and made the pre-booked second rounds less than fun.

The website itself says 4:20 average and the first ten times go to those that play in 4:00 (however they "enforce" that).  Doesn't that make many of the later rounds in the 4:40 range?

This linked page from the resort confirms the problem that we have in the united states and which is generally worse in public golf. 

https://www.bandondunesgolf.com/blog/pace-play-bandon-dunes-golf-resort

[John Kavanaugh]

If you pay $300 to play "ranger golf", and like it, you have a screw loose.

[John Cowden]

...and that’s why one plays in the winter season.  Sublime, and very affordable.

[Eric Smith]

No one who is at Bandon right now cares what the internet is saying about a divot by a principle's nose.

[Garland Bayley]

...and that’s why one plays in the winter season.  Sublime, and very affordable.

That's why my first round at Pacific Dunes was 5 hours 20 minutes in January?

I will admit my other January rounds would meet the 4:20 average.

[Rich Goodale]

Rich,

Not to beat a dead horse...but when you said this, how does Bandon not excel in these categories!

"What I do care about is playability for all reasonably good golfers, walkability, quick play, interesting features and good 19th holes with good camaraderie."

Keep on beating, Kalen.  Eventually the horse will be minging and you'll have to find somewhere to bury it.  Good luck.


As for per above:


playability--OK
walkability--meh
quick play--NOT
interesting features--very good
Good 19th holes--too crowded
Camaraderie--all depending who brought you to the dance (or vice versa)


Have a merry Christmas, and get rid of that minging horse!


Rich

[John Kavanaugh]

No one who is at Bandon right now cares what the internet is saying about a divot by a principle's nose.

They will roll it out like a sticky burger. That's the thing about picking your nose, it's a tough habit to break.

[Ira Fishman]

Rich,

Not to beat a dead horse...but when you said this, how does Bandon not excel in these categories!

"What I do care about is playability for all reasonably good golfers, walkability, quick play, interesting features and good 19th holes with good camaraderie."

Keep on beating, Kalen.  Eventually the horse will be minging and you'll have to find somewhere to bury it.  Good luck.


As for per above:


playability--OK
walkability--meh
quick play--NOT
interesting features--very good
Good 19th holes--too crowded
Camaraderie--all depending who brought you to the dance (or vice versa)


Have a merry Christmas, and get rid of that minging horse!


Rich

I do not think that Bandon is Nirvana, but our one trip certainly leads to different conclusions.  We were there in September so good weather season.  I was with my wife so the Camaraderie factor was high but so were all of the other criteria.  We played BD, BT, and OM as a two ball in less than 3:30 and maybe a bit quicker; PD was a four ball in 4:20 but we were paired up with a long but wild young man and his wife who is delightful but was a raw beginner.  Sven was nice enough to help them a lot because they did not have anyone carrying for them, but it still made it slower.  I would rank all of the courses as very walkable (except for the walk to 14th tee at BT, but it was worth it) and playable.  The 19th holes are certainly not quaint but also not crowded with good, reasonably priced food and most pleasant barkeeps and servers.


That was 2017.  This year we made our first trip to Dornoch and Inverness.  Played Golspie, Brora, RD, Nairn, and Castle Stuart. We loved every minute (well to be honest, my wife was not crazy about Nairn ,and I thought CS way overrated).


We live in Washington DC.  It takes about the same effort and time to get to Bandon or the Highlands.  It is a coin flip regarding where we would return if we had the chance.  Probably the Highlands because the short travel to the courses still creates a sense of space and variety that you cannot get at Bandon.  But still a coin flip.


I may now be uninvited from Rich's family party on the beach at Dornoch, but I hope not.


Ira

[Rich Goodale]

Ira


You (and Mrs. Ira) have good tastes vis a vis golf.


As for the Goodale/McRoberts/Gordon/Mitchell/O'Donnelly/Quinn et. al. ad infinitum annual visitation, you and your family and friends will always be welcome. All you need to do is find accommodation and BYOB to all the evening gatherings. Golf will be daily--on the Championship course, the Struie, Tain, Golspie, Brora or wherever. The dates are 27 July to 3 August.  Lots of light there and then.


Anybody else reading this, you are welcome but must find your way, as per above.


If you are interested in camaraderie, this is the place.  52 souls from 10 to 85 there last there.  And there is very much a there, there when we are there.......


Rich

[archie_struthers]

 


Yep!

[Sven Nilsen]

The irony in the quote used by Rich is that Gertrude Stein wasn't trying to describe a place with no character, she was commenting on nostalgia, and the discomfort of returning somewhere and not finding what you once knew of the place.


Its a comment about how things used to be, and more specifically how you remembered things to be. 


There is nothing about this quote that applies to what Mike Keiser is doing.  He is not trying to recreate the Scotland that Mackenzie, Colt and others knew on the coast of Oregon.  Rather, he has defined the modern golf retreat, one where courses are built on ground fit for the purpose. 


If you come to Bandon looking for the ghosts of Old and Young Tom Morris, you're missing the point.  The only nostalgia at Bandon exists in the courses themselves, in the sense that they recapture what golf architecture should be about.


Progress is a funny thing.  Sometimes it happens gradually, sometimes it happens in giant leaps and bounds.  Some people embrace it with open arms.  Some people still yearn for the ways of their youth, like Gertrude.

[Kalen Braley]

Sven, +1000.

Just Outstanding.

Game. Set. Match.

[Garland Bayley]

Sven, +1000.

Just Outstanding.

Game. Set. Match.

Except that I believe Sven missed that for Rich the quote was dead on. When he first went there the staff were local enthusiasts welcoming you to their home. That morphed into impersonal corporate.

Decision overruled.

[Kalen Braley]

Sven, +1000.

Just Outstanding.

Game. Set. Match.

Except that I believe Sven missed that for Rich the quote was dead on. When he first went there the staff were local enthusiasts welcoming you to their home. That morphed into impersonal corporate.

Decision overruled.

Except you are also missing one key difference...in Gertrude's case, her old home in Oakland with garden and trees was completely gone.  To her it was like it never existed, the only thing left was her memories...hence the nostalgia part.


"To be clear, this quote has taken on a life of its own that has no connection with its original meaning. Stein was confronting the reality that her childhood was gone, not condemning the city as bland, her meaning being the same as Thomas Wolfe in writing "You Can't Go Home Again."