A Request for Ran - Let's Interview the Clients/Developers

[Peter Pallotta]

If there is a perspective we're missing here on gca.com, it is that of golf course developers/clients.


Here is my request: that Ran arrange a series of interviews with such folks, from the large/multi-course developers to the small/one-off/boutique kind, from the public names to those that fly under the radar, from the ones who are in vogue and winning kudos to the ones who have developed courses that most of us don't aspire to play.


My only suggestions: 1) that every interviewee gets asked exactly the same questions, and 2) that we here, collectively, put together that list of questions. If Ran can't serve as compiler and editor of the questions, someone else can volunteer; and if no one steps up, I'll do it.


Please toss out your questions here.

[Mike_Young]

....get me a list of questions and I will find you some developers...

[Mark Pavy]

Peter,

I'd be happy to answer some questions. I'd fall into the small/one-off/boutique kind.

Mark

[Matthew Mollica]

Richard Sattler of Barnbougle fame.


Duncan Andrews who has developed The Dunes, 13th Beach, and Cape Wickham.


Two good nominations, if I do say so myself.


Mr Kayne of Tara Iti fame would be phenomenal.

[Thomas Dai]

There's are already some some in the Featured Interview section.
For example this interview with Chris Johnston about Dismal River here - http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-chris-johnston/
As I recall the accompanying thread was very interesting as well.
Atb

[Steve Lapper]

Great idea!


I'd be happy to participate...as long I didn't have to listen to Ran's fake news about his golf game!

[Ian Andrew]

 Here's three:


http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/mike-keiser-june-2005/


http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-pinehurst/


http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/cabotinterview/

[Joel_Stewart]

Mr Kayne of Tara Iti fame would be phenomenal.

He's a certified golf nut.  I think he shuns the media but it would be a good interview.  Like the Jack Nicklaus interview and you have to think big.  We'll never know unless someone calls.


I'm not sure what questions should be asked to any developer.  In this market in boils down to how are you going to differentiate yourself.  I'm more interested in how and why certain golf developers put out questionable product in this day and age. 

[David_Tepper]

I would certainly be interested to know how many of the developers of destination courses/clubs ever expect to recover their investment or operate the facilities at a profit.

[Tom_Doak]

Mr Kayne of Tara Iti fame would be phenomenal.

He's a certified golf nut.  I think he shuns the media but it would be a good interview. 

I'm sure that I could arrange an interview with Ric if Ran wants to.  He does not "shun the media," he's just not from a business where it made any sense to seek publicity for himself, and since Tara Iti is a private club, he's not chasing down The Golf Channel to promote it.  But he's very proud of the place [for good reason] and he loves to talk about golf.


I think Peter's idea in general is a good one, but you should certainly seek out a range of developers to speak with.  At the high end, many of them are going to say all the same things.


It was a great part of my education in golf to get to spend time with developers and clients and see what made them tick.  When I worked for Mr. Dye, I spent time interacting with Joe Walser and Ernie Vossler from Landmark, Joe Webster at Long Cove, Dick Youngscap who was building Firethorn, and Herb Kohler, to whom Mr. Dye had recommended me as a golf course photographer for Blackwolf Run.  When I worked for GOLF Magazine, I got to meet other developers of prominent courses.  I visited with Mark Parsinen at Kingsbarns just as he was getting it started, and we both picked each other's brains for two 12-hour days.  And of course I've worked for several of the most successful on my own projects.


Having a client who knows when to speak up and when to let you do your thing is the #1 most important relationship for any project.  The ones who get it right have a lot in common, although for most it took a couple of projects to understand that, and they would be too polite to tell you about their difficulties "on the record."


I definitely think you should get Donald Trump to do an interview about his golf development work, too, but now might not be the right time.

[Tom_Doak]

I would certainly be interested to know how many of the developers of destination courses/clubs ever expect to recover their investment or operate the facilities at a profit.

On some of the more famous projects we've done, our client had no pretensions about recovering their investment in the course in their lifetimes.  They were building the project because they wanted to leave behind something great, and they had the wherewithal to not have to worry if they ever recovered the money they spent on building the course.


However, I've never once had a client who was happy for the course to lose money from year to year operations.  These guys didn't get to be so successful by running businesses that lost money, and even if it's only costing them a half million a year and they are worth a billion, the idea that the thing is losing money will just gnaw at their sensibilities.  For some, whether the project is "losing money" or not is a bigger calculation than just the golf course itself, but most will prefer it to be successful as a stand-alone entity.  Not all of them are successful, obviously, but they do try.


The most important thing I learned from Julian Robertson was never to question the first part of the equation.  Whether it's worth spending the money is up to the client, and you should only address that part of it when asked by the client to do so.  Any sooner, and you run the risk of the client thinking you are compromising the quality of the design because of money ... when their focus is on creating something special.

[Joe_Tucholski]

After a minute of thought and no real insight into the process here are some of the questions I'd be interested in.


With so many courses already in existence why did you want to build a golf course?

How did you acquire the land?

How did you decide a golf course was the best use of the land?

What do you value in a golf course?

Are the things you value in a golf course seen in your course?

Who is your target customer?

How big is your "team" and how did you pick your "team"?

What was your business plan like?

What sort of revenue to expense ratio did you expect?

What sort of revenue to expense ratio are you experiencing?

What is the ratio of of cost of construction to revenue?

Have things turned out the way you expected?

Looking back what would you change?

What is your vision for the course in the next 50 years?

[David_Tepper]

Tom Doak -

Thanks very much for your thoughtful responses to the questions I asked.

DT

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Joe - those seem like the kind of questions I had in mind.


For me, the value in such a series of interviews would lay in having ALL the developers, big and small, answer the SAME questions.


I know Ran's already done some interviews with developers -- but there are many many other developers out there (including, thanks gents, those on this board who have offered to answer questions). 


What we don't need, it seems to me, are any more 'tailored' interviews, i.e. where we ask architect-and-course-specific questions like "When did you first hear of Tom D" or "How to you come to pick Gil H?"


How about Ran sending out to 20 developers the same set of questions, much like Joe's? He has/gets the contact info, and then sends this:


Here are 20 questions. The same 20 questions are being asked simultaneously to 20 different developers. The questions are simple and straightforward, designed to be open-ended; please feel free to approach/answer them in any way that most interests you and with as much/little detail as you like: 


Q 1. There are a lot of ways to make money. What made you want to make money through golf course development?

Q 2. Honestly now: how do you view the architect - as a colleague, a partner, or an employee?


Q 3. If you had to choose, would you pick more awards and less profit or less awards and more profit?


Q 4. If your best friend didn't really like your golf course, would it bother you?


Q 5. Do you most want a golf course that suits your tastes or the tastes of the type of golfer you want to attract?


Q 6. If your golf course lost a little money every year, would you consider it a failed business?


And then Joe's 14 questions.


P

[Ran Morrissett]

This is a great idea and I'll pursue it.

In the meanwhile, here is another one that we have already done in addition to the ones Ian lists:

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/roger-hansen-october-2010/

[Tom_Doak]

This is a great idea and I'll pursue it.

In the meanwhile, here is another one that we have already done in addition to the ones Ian lists:

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/roger-hansen-october-2010/

You should add Jon Scott from Gull Lake View to the list.  A family operation with multiple courses that are "average" architecturally, who have decided to try something a bit more daring with their latest one.