Stoke Park in the UK next buy for Trump?

[Jon Byron]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4014896/Donald-Trump-interested-buying-Stoke-Park-President-elect-looks-add-golf-course-collection.html


Parkland course west of London. Never played it, but played several in the area. Would like to give it a try!

[Thomas Dai]

Jon,
You may be familiar with this though - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7GMzNJNDmdM
😄
Atb

[David_Tepper]

The Stoke Park clubhouse was also featured in the Daniel Craig movie "Layer Cake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Ofdp35vfg

It is a pretty good movie, well worth seeing. But there is a spoiler alert if you do not want to know how the movie ends!

[Duncan Cheslett]

I played Stoke Park a couple of years ago with Ken Moodie.


It's a nice enough parkland course and immaculately maintained, but other than the "Augusta hole", some wonderful specimen trees and the ambiance of the clubhouse it is pretty unmemorable.


It has a high profile however, great location, and is eminently marketable. Probably perfect, then.

[Martin Toal]

Stoke Park is a nice course with 27 holes. The old 18 are better than the newer refurbished 9, in my opinion. By the standards espoused here,. it isn't anything to write home about. The old clubhouse is also an upscale hotel, used for the Layer Cake and World Is Not Enough movies. In the scenes where Pierce Brosnan returned to his Hamburg hotel after tango;ing with Rupert Murdoch, sorry Jonathan Pryce, he entered a window in Hamburg and ended up in a room at Stoke Park.


It has a large contingent of city yahoos, so the brash and vulgar ostentation of Trumpism may be well suited.

[Marty Bonnar]

Hmm...
Let's see.
Trump/Goldfinger, Trump/Goldfinger...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7GMzNJNDmdM


Whoops, I now see Dai beat me to it.

F.

[Anthony Gholz]

With apologies to both authors: "Nothing to write home about" and "nice enough course."  Maybe one of Harry's first (1908 +/-) courses wan't up to his (later) standards? 

For one who has only seen it in the movies maybe someone could comment as to why, per these reviews, it would only make a Doak 3+?

Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

Can't remember if I gave it a 4 or 5 ... which would still make it better than much of Trump's US course portfolio.  The clubhouse alone is worth a full point on the Doak scale, even though it doesn't integrate with the course well at all.

[Paul Dolton]

The Stoke Park clubhouse was also featured in the Daniel Craig movie "Layer Cake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Ofdp35vfg

It is a pretty good movie, well worth seeing. But there is a spoiler alert if you do not want to know how the movie ends!

The course is  over rated, unlike the film Layer Cake which is under rated. Daniel  Craig is at his best.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I played it a number of times back in the 70s and 80s when it was still a modest private club. You could play it for a reasonable green fee and the course was in very average condition. Since then it has been raised to an exalted level and exemplary course condition. I don't think it's as good as it was back then. I remember one hole (the 15th) - long sadly disappeared - where you played a drive between the clubhouse and a bunker directly in front of the green! It was such fun. The pro's shop was a bit of a hut, and all the better for it. In those days it was like Liphook, West Surrey and Camberley Heath. You could afford to play it and you got a lot of golf for your money. 


I've just looked back over my notes from those days. I'll not reproduce them as the course has been changed, but I am struck by the number, placing and severity of the bunkers. In those days 8 out of the 11 two-shot holes were over 400 yards in length, which meant lots of banging away with woods for second shots (my, how it has all changed!). One interesting fact I gleaned after my round. The professional course record was a 65, including two bogeys on par 3s. Could have been a 63.

[Matt Dawson]

I'm still reeling from the discovery that the visitor fee there is £230 at weekends, revealed when somebody on GCA was searching for a spot to play before a Saturday pm flight out of Heathrow.

The website states rather self-effacingly "The course at Stoke Park is probably the finest example of parkland golf in the British Isles....Unlike other courses in this part of England, heather does not play a part in Stoke Park’s natural defences. Rather, mature trees of fir and oak, together with clever bunkering and exceptionally swift greens, are the particular features of the course."

Try as I might, I recall very little of the course from my single visit there around 10yrs ago, which is unusual for me.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I'm still reeling from the discovery that the visitor fee there is £230 at weekends, revealed when somebody on GCA was searching for a spot to play before a Saturday pm flight out of Heathrow.

The website states rather self-effacingly "The course at Stoke Park is probably the finest example of parkland golf in the British Isles....Unlike other courses in this part of England, heather does not play a part in Stoke Park’s natural defences. Rather, mature trees of fir and oak, together with clever bunkering and exceptionally swift greens, are the particular features of the course."

Try as I might, I recall very little of the course from my single visit there around 10yrs ago, which is unusual for me.

Trump courses should be respected and appreciated.
They assemble and attract a group of people that no one else wants at their courses and provides an over-valued, over-hyped gold-plated venue for them.

[Mark Pearce]

I've played it several times.  It's a decent course.  Like others, I don't recall too many specific holes.  At £230 it might be the worst value in British golf.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I've played it several times.  It's a decent course.  Like others, I don't recall too many specific holes.  At £230 it might be the worst value in British golf.

Ken and I paid £40 each on a Saturday afternoon in a deal brokered via the  Colt Association (now defunct) which was based at Stoke Park. We were in town for the annual match the following day  between the MacKenzie Society and the Colt Association which that year was played at Camberley Heath.


We felt that £40 was about right.

[Duncan Cheslett]

The website states rather self-effacingly "The course at Stoke Park is probably the finest example of parkland golf in the British Isles...

Strangely, they might just have a point.


"Parkland" is a term seemingly applied these days to any golf course which cannot be described as "Links", "Heathland", "Moorland", "Downland", "Headland", etc, etc.


Most are located on muddy farmers' fields.

Stoke Park is a rarity in being sited on genuine Parkland - the grounds of a stately home which has been landscaped and manicured as a park. Majestic stands of mature hardwood trees are mandatory and a herd of deer is preferred.

I can't think of too many other genuine parkland courses...

[Sam Krume]

Stoke Park is an ok golf course, definitely not worth the exorbitant green fee though. The course itself has some decent holes on it but whoever decided on the new bunkering on the colt 9, they need to be shot. Overkill would be a word to describe the new bunkering. Some of it is ludicrous.

[Adam Lawrence]

Stoke Park is an ok golf course, definitely not worth the exorbitant green fee though. The course itself has some decent holes on it but whoever decided on the new bunkering on the colt 9, they need to be shot. Overkill would be a word to describe the new bunkering. Some of it is ludicrous.

The club is in the middle of spending a million pounds on a bunker 'restoration'; one nine done last winter, another nine is to be done this time (probably in the middle of the work). They are not using an architect because: "modern architects tend to want to put their own personal stamp on the course – and we want to return to the original Colt style". (Those words a direct quote from director of golf Stuart Collier when I asked him why on earth they would spend a million pounds without getting a proper architect to supervise the work).

In my opinion, the work is a disaster. Stoke Park may not seem truly special now, but it was one of Colt's first major works back in 1908, and its first secretary was Hugh Alison, his entry into the golf business.

The work, as you can see from this photo (courtesy Golfmagic), has nothing at all to do with Colt.






At best you might say it is a pastiche of a 1920s Colt style, as seen here at Moor Park:







But that has nothing to do with the style that Colt would have adopted in 1908. Pre-WW1, we repeatedly find him saying that bunkers should be placed in natural landforms wherever possible and 'torn out' of the landform. That implies a much more random, ragged edge. There is no evidence that I have seen for any bunkers of this complexity on a pre-war Colt course. It's shocking work and Stoke Park should be ashamed of themselves for claiming that it is restorative.

[Marc Haring]

I started my greenkeeper career in 1983 at the Stoke Poges. The course maintenance was appallingly underfunded but in many ways that allowed the course to retain some of the Colt charm. For years they claimed that the 7th hole (which has been subjected to a dreadful beautification scheme) was the inspiration behind 12 at ANGC even though it was nothing like it. It paid a big part in their promotional material. The reality was that Mackenzie based the old 16th on it. We had a discussion on it a few years ago and I rang up the Pro to tell him to follow the thread. Don't know if he believed me or not but I think they then changed that particular claim. Back in the 1980's the club was run by prize 'A' holes. Don't think much has changed.

[Ben Stephens]

Wow - that is shocking - the bunkers look really amateurish and has downgraded the profile of Stoke Park. I have seen a number of bunkers done in house and greens committee who think that they know better which have been pretty dire.


Millions of pounds surely they could have brought in a well known GCA to sort everything out as I have seen last weekend which has made a great course even greater.

Stoke Park is an ok golf course, definitely not worth the exorbitant green fee though. The course itself has some decent holes on it but whoever decided on the new bunkering on the colt 9, they need to be shot. Overkill would be a word to describe the new bunkering. Some of it is ludicrous.

The club is in the middle of spending a million pounds on a bunker 'restoration'; one nine done last winter, another nine is to be done this time (probably in the middle of the work). They are not using an architect because: "modern architects tend to want to put their own personal stamp on the course – and we want to return to the original Colt style". (Those words a direct quote from director of golf Stuart Collier when I asked him why on earth they would spend a million pounds without getting a proper architect to supervise the work).

In my opinion, the work is a disaster. Stoke Park may not seem truly special now, but it was one of Colt's first major works back in 1908, and its first secretary was Hugh Alison, his entry into the golf business.

The work, as you can see from this photo (courtesy Golfmagic), has nothing at all to do with Colt.






At best you might say it is a pastiche of a 1920s Colt style, as seen here at Moor Park:







But that has nothing to do with the style that Colt would have adopted in 1908. Pre-WW1, we repeatedly find him saying that bunkers should be placed in natural landforms wherever possible and 'torn out' of the landform. That implies a much more random, ragged edge. There is no evidence that I have seen for any bunkers of this complexity on a pre-war Colt course. It's shocking work and Stoke Park should be ashamed of themselves for claiming that it is restorative.

[Adam Lawrence]

Wow - that is shocking - the bunkers look really amateurish and has downgraded the profile of Stoke Park. I have seen a number of bunkers done in house and greens committee who think that they know better which have been pretty dire.

Millions of pounds surely they could have brought in a well known GCA to sort everything out as I have seen last weekend which has made a great course even greater.

But this is the point Ben, they haven't not used an architect to save money. They have deliberately chosen not to use an architect because they think they will get more Colt-like work that way. WRONG!

[Sean_A]

Why worry so much about this stuff?  Its Stoke Park not Swinley Forest.


Ciao

[Ian Mackenzie]

NEw York Times reports this am that Trump will not do any new deals while he is POTUS:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/us/politics/donald-trump-postpones-announcement-on-business-conflicts.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

[jeffwarne]

I'm still reeling from the discovery that the visitor fee there is £230 at weekends, revealed when somebody on GCA was searching for a spot to play before a Saturday pm flight out of Heathrow.

The website states rather self-effacingly "The course at Stoke Park is probably the finest example of parkland golf in the British Isles....Unlike other courses in this part of England, heather does not play a part in Stoke Park’s natural defences. Rather, mature trees of fir and oak, together with clever bunkering and exceptionally swift greens, are the particular features of the course."

Try as I might, I recall very little of the course from my single visit there around 10yrs ago, which is unusual for me.

Trump courses should be respected and appreciated.
They assemble and attract a group of people that no one else wants at their courses and provides an over-valued, over-hyped gold-plated venue for them.

aka the asshole trap
every region needs at least one

[Mark Pearce]

Dear God, Adam, that's horrible.  We should all be grateful for places like Stoke Park that attract tossers, enabling us to avoid some of them while we play better courses.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I'm still reeling from the discovery that the visitor fee there is £230 at weekends, revealed when somebody on GCA was searching for a spot to play before a Saturday pm flight out of Heathrow.

The website states rather self-effacingly "The course at Stoke Park is probably the finest example of parkland golf in the British Isles....Unlike other courses in this part of England, heather does not play a part in Stoke Park’s natural defences. Rather, mature trees of fir and oak, together with clever bunkering and exceptionally swift greens, are the particular features of the course."

Try as I might, I recall very little of the course from my single visit there around 10yrs ago, which is unusual for me.

Trump courses should be respected and appreciated.
They assemble and attract a group of people that no one else wants at their courses and provides an over-valued, over-hyped gold-plated venue for them.

aka the asshole trap
every region needs at least one

Love that, Jeff!


Would be a great thread to start: "What is the ass-hole trap in your hometown?"....


In Chicago, that's easy: Butler National