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Bret Lawrence

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Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« on: November 30, 2016, 09:59:16 PM »

Here is an article from the Irvington Gazette-March 28, 1930, explaining some of the changes Tillinghast had planned for Sleepy Hollow.


I had never seen an article describing Tillinghasts work at Sleepy Hollow until now,  I thought it was kind of interesting.







Ronald Montesano

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 05:41:09 AM »
How much fun must that original 9th hole, with its "great hump of rock" in the landing area, been?


How antiquated would that landing area be today, with the advances in equipment?
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MCirba

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 10:29:46 AM »
Without going into great detail, my impression from the article is that Tillinghast's contributions to today's course were more extensive than previously known.   Would others agree?

Thanks, Bret!
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jeffwarne

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 06:20:41 PM »
Interesting article.
Having worked at Sleepy in the early 90's I certainly loved that course.
I'm a little confused about the hole sequencing.
The original course involved a few holes from the now "Short course"


I'm assuming the "fifth hole" they are referring to is now 3?


I haven't been there to see the Hanse renovation which kept the routing and from what I've heard embraced the CB McDonald look/theme, reducing the Tillinghast "look" (much of which was altered in the Rees 90's redo)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 07:04:20 PM by jeffwarne »
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Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 11:49:22 PM »
Mike,


I would agree.


Jeff,


There is an aerial from the 20's in Colin Sheehan's collection which shows how the course was presented before Tillinghast arrived.  I wish I could link it up here!  The aerial shows four holes added by Winton in the mid 20's.  These four Winton holes replaced four of Macdonalds original holes to the north. The four Winton holes are in the vicinity of today's 1st and 18th holes, the driving range and 1A of the Lower Course. 


In 1930, they would play these four Winton holes as 1-4, then play what is today's 2nd as the fifth.  The sixth mentioned in the article would have been today's Par 3, 3rd over the ravine.  And the ninth hole mentioned in the article would be today's 6th hole.  The Redan would have been the 10th, Punchbowl would have been the 13th and the Short would be the 14th. Today's 17th would have been the 15th in 1930 and you would finish by playing 6A, 7A and 8A of today's Lower Course.


Hope that isn't too confusing!


Bret

Colin Sheehan

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:25:27 AM by Colin Sheehan »

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2016, 11:26:04 AM »
Here are three different looks at the evolution of the layout.

First, an early routing map from the Feb. 9, 1915 edition of the Evening Telegram:



Next, the 1926 aerial from Colin (I've rotated the image to match the map below):



Finally, a 1931 routing map.  I have no idea if all of the changes in this map were actually made, but the depiction of the new holes on the east side of the property seems spot on.


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2016, 11:31:05 AM »
Looking at the 1915 plan and description, the then 17th hole was noted as the Eden (a 300 yard hole).  The then 5th (today's 3rd) was not an Eden template, but rather a one-off called Ravine.

The hole was changed by Tillie, taking the green from up on the high ridge and moving it to a shelf on the hillside.  Curious as to why it became known as the Eden.


Sven
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:35:28 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2016, 12:50:17 PM »
Sven and Colin,


Thank you for posting the maps and aerials.  Here is a close up of the hole names from the original 1915 Macdonald layout:



As Sven mentioned, the original 5th hole (today's 3rd) was moved by Tillinghast. What isn't mentioned in the article were the changes to what is today's 5th hole.  On the original 1915 layout this hole was named the Alps and was labeled 7 on the map.  If you look closely, (today's 5th hole) used to play to (today's 3rd green).  This can also be seen on Colin's aerial above.


Here is a closeup shot. Notice the orientation of 5 and 7.  Today these holes are known as the 3rd and 5th and they play in slightly different directions. Today, the 3rd plays to what was Macdonalds original 7th green, and the 5th plays to a Tillinghast green.  The original 5th green doesn't appear to exist anymore.



Sven regarding your question about whether the changes were made or not, the 1953 aerial on historic aerials depicts the course very much like the Calvert Winsborough/Tillinghast map.


Bret

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2016, 01:04:55 PM »
Here is a picture from the Sleepy Hollow website that shows the original 5th green.  I am not sure of the source of this exact picture and caption, but this same picture was published in the New York Times-April 9, 1916 with the caption: "Phillip Carter on the fifth green at Sleepy Hollow".  The NY Times picture is a little grainy so I decided to post the clearer view.  Notice how the tees are south of the fourth green (today's 2nd)

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2016, 01:32:47 PM »

As Sven mentioned, the original 5th hole (today's 3rd) was moved by Tillinghast. What isn't mentioned in the article were the changes to what is today's 5th hole.  On the original 1915 layout this hole was named the Alps and was labeled 7 on the map.  If you look closely, (today's 5th hole) used to play to (today's 3rd green).  This can also be seen on Colin's aerial above.



Bret:


Are we sure about today's 5th used to play to the current 3rd green?  The article in your first post sure makes it sounds like the green was built new by Tillie.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2016, 02:34:20 PM »
Sven,


I suppose I read the article differently.  They never mentioned building a new green.  They mentioned elevating and moving the tees to the left of the green and shooting to a broader and lower green to the right of the present one.  I suppose I assumed that was the 7th green, which was lower, broader and to the right.


It would probably be safer to say today's 3rd green is in the vicinity of Macdonalds original 7th green.  I'm not sure what modifications Tillinghast made, if any, but the aerials show today's 3rd and the original 7th are very close, if not in the exact same location.  The same can not be said for today's 5th green.


Bret
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:47:35 PM by Bret Lawrence »

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2016, 03:07:37 PM »
Here is the 1953 aerial from historicaerials.  I realize this is 20 years after Tillinghast, but it closely represents his plan from 1931.



This is a closer look at what is today's 3rd and 5th.


Sven Nilsen

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2016, 03:39:34 PM »
Bret:

You may very well be right.

Here's a photo of the Alps Green from the Jan. 1915 edition of Golfers Magazine:



If I had to guess, I'd say the original was a bit further up perched on top of the ravine edge.  But I could very well be wrong.

In any case, it still doesn't help to answer the question as to why the 3rd became known as The Eden.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

corey miller

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2016, 06:36:14 PM »

Thank you for all the fine information. 

Clearly an interesting history with many hands involved though I would argue, because they both put their heart and soul into the project, the most important were George Bahto and Gil Hanse. 

"Folklore" is that every golden age guy that set foot on the property had issues and perhaps not enough artistic license for my liking. 

Perhaps that is why the course was never perceived as one of the better Macdonald or Tillinghast efforts?  Some of the neat features were most likely bulldozed over through the years and some because of meddling probably never hit the ground. 

What they both did expertly (IMO prior to getting frustrated) is route the course over a rocky rugged property of immense scale.  That remains to this day,  though a  lot had been  buried under trees and brush and Rees mounds.  it has been rediscovered.  The photos in Ran's review no longer do the property justice.

As part of our original "restoration" (restoring a classic look in the Macdonald style) we re-routed a poorly conceived hole and did minor work on one green.  This year we have embarked on a plan to build 18 USGA greens.  We have completed nine and will finish the work next fall.

More importantly, we have re-countered, restored, and rebuilt many of the greens that had been changed over the years.  Some we did not have documentary evidence for but the ones we did have good shots of have  been restored.  Most neat in that regard is our present day #14 (visible in the 1926 aerial) with two  long mounds on the green running along the line of play that that segment the green into three lengthwise sections.  Something I have never seen. 

All this work was envisioned originally and is IMO true to the course heritage.  How could it be any other way when many of the ideas came from my dear departed friend George Bahto?  I know Gil thinks about him often while he attempts to channel their ideas into the dirt. Gil does not like any GCA chatter from me but I will say it is so impressive that a man like Gil, on the top of his profession still tells me every-time we walk the course how much he gained from his relationship with George Bahto.   

I have never been much of a "homer" when it comes to my home club, I have always been  happy that we have improved the course to the extent possible while making the course a great walk, and most importantly "FUN". 

I let the "raters" do the rating, but from what I have seen the course will be SIGNIFICANTLY better in the spring and even more-so spring 2018. 

A testament to having caring, experienced, passionate, knowledgeable people involved and getting out of the way.   





Neil Regan

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2016, 07:31:49 PM »
 :)
++
Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Tillinghast at Sleepy Hollow
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2016, 01:23:19 PM »
Sven,


I have never seen that photo of the original 7th green before, thanks for sharing that!  It reminds me of the dragons teeth at Greenbrier.  I am not sure where the reference for the Eden came from, but it is clear from the 1915 routing, the Eden green was most likely at the end of a short Par 4 that was gone after the club sold off land to the north.  The Ocean Links years later also had a short Par 4 with an Eden green, so it wasn't completely out of the ordinary.


Corey,


Thanks for your post, that is very well said.  You guys should be very proud of the work you accomplished and continue to do.  It appears you have a very clear vision of what the members and architects would like the course to be and you are sticking to your guns.  Its hard to argue with that.  I appreciate the club letting us discuss this publicly and being so accommodating.  I enjoy learning about the history of your great course.


Here is another Tillinghast article from the same date, March 28, 1930.  This article was from the Pelham Sun  This article obviously doesn't go into as much detail as the first article:





Here is an old illustration from HOP of the Sleepy Hollow Short:



Bret