Olympic Course in Rio at the Brink

[Mike_Young]

They could have just worked on Gavea and let the guys shoot low 60's etc and then go back to the private club it is...the entire thing was political and it's not the last time we will see this type of thing with the Olympics...a golf course is nothing to close compared to a stadium...

[James Brown]

Personally I'm surprised.  I assumed that Rio could support a world class public golf course just from tourism alone.

Who goes to Rio for golf?

[JJShanley]

I think the world of Justin Rose, and the area in which Gil Hanse has his office, so I'd love this course to survive.  We'll always have Merion East, I suppose.

In other (OT) news: Mama and Papa Shanley sent me the Team GB shirt from Rio.  I look forward to wearing it on July 4.  Haters can hate.

[Joe Zucker]

Personally I'm surprised.  I assumed that Rio could support a world class public golf course just from tourism alone.

Who goes to Rio for golf?

I agree that no one does, but I was there for a week and it was fun to get one round in.  There are a million other things to do in Rio, but a day out there with rented sticks was worth it.  I imagine other tourists would be willing to spend one day there for the sake of seeing the place if it were running properly.

[MClutterbuck]

They could have just worked on Gavea and let the guys shoot low 60's etc and then go back to the private club it is...the entire thing was political and it's not the last time we will see this type of thing with the Olympics...a golf course is nothing to close compared to a stadium...

Gavea in winter is unplayable. Who would have buried a ton of money to fix a private club for the sole benefit of their membership?

[MClutterbuck]

Personally I'm surprised.  I assumed that Rio could support a world class public golf course just from tourism alone.

Who goes to Rio for golf?

Probably the same kind of people that started going to Hawaii for golf at some point in history. A major city like Rio should be able to sustain a good golf course if done well. A contract with a foreign maintenance company and a first rate international superintendent post growing and post Olympics is not smart.


Just adding a nice club house with a certain amount of members (preserving the public golf objetives) should give you enough revenue. 600 members at US$150 is enough to maintain a first rate golf course in Rio. A good superintendent from Argentina will cost US$3,000 per month and that will be your biggest expense until you train a local one. The rest of labor costs are not high in Brazil. 


There are private dining clubs in Rio that cost a multiple of US$150 with no additional facilities. It appears somebody does not want to make it work or they are being misled.


If Buenos Aires can sustain 100+ courses, Rio can sustain more than 3.

[Kalen Braley]

Looks like the course ain't the only thing in trouble..


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/three-months-after-the-olympics-rio-de-janeiro-is-broke/ar-AAl1vSS?li=BBnbfcL

[Jon Wiggett]

Kalen,


this was always going to happen and the OGs just sped things up.

[Tom_Doak]

Looks like the course ain't the only thing in trouble..


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/three-months-after-the-olympics-rio-de-janeiro-is-broke/ar-AAl1vSS?li=BBnbfcL

The Brazilian papers are probably writing the same article about San Jose.

[Mike_Young]

They could have just worked on Gavea and let the guys shoot low 60's etc and then go back to the private club it is...the entire thing was political and it's not the last time we will see this type of thing with the Olympics...a golf course is nothing to close compared to a stadium...

Gavea in winter is unplayable. Who would have buried a ton of money to fix a private club for the sole benefit of their membership?

I don't think it would have been a ton of money and they could have provided the needed work in exchange for a lease....The wet areas could be fixed without spending a fortune.  It owuld have been much cheaper than going the route they chose....

[Tom_Doak]

They could have just worked on Gavea and let the guys shoot low 60's etc and then go back to the private club it is...the entire thing was political and it's not the last time we will see this type of thing with the Olympics...a golf course is nothing to close compared to a stadium...

Gavea in winter is unplayable. Who would have buried a ton of money to fix a private club for the sole benefit of their membership?

I don't think it would have been a ton of money and they could have provided the needed work in exchange for a lease....The wet areas could be fixed without spending a fortune.  It owuld have been much cheaper than going the route they chose....

I was actually asked by Gavea to consult on whether the course was suitable for Olympic play, back in 2010 -- just after the Olympics were announced.  I was of the opinion that it wasn't.  It wasn't so much about drainage issues, but about going back and forth under the highway and up the side of the mountain, and getting any reasonable numbers of spectators on the course ... and about the tiny practice range in between the first and second holes, with netting all around it.  The powers that be were already angling to build a new course because Gavea is 6100 yards par 69, and they didn't think that was appropriate; but it was all the other "stuff" that would have made it a mess.


I did not go to see Itanhanga on the same trip, but the feeling there was that it had large-scale drainage problems that would need an expensive fix, and that there was no way the Olympics could fund that sort of investment in a private club.  The Gavea members could have afforded changes if necessary; in fact, they just did them a couple of years ago, while Gil Hanse was waiting to start on the new course.

[Kalen Braley]

Looks like the course ain't the only thing in trouble..


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/three-months-after-the-olympics-rio-de-janeiro-is-broke/ar-AAl1vSS?li=BBnbfcL

The Brazilian papers are probably writing the same article about San Jose.

Tom I don't know the reference.


But I think the reality remains the same.  Given golf isn't exactly a hot thing, or any kind of thing in Brazil for that matter, i can't imagine the course will receive even a dime of assistance to keep.  A shame really because it looks to be a gem.

[MClutterbuck]

The Olympic Course in Rio was completely full last week and in excellent condition.

[MCirba]

MClutterbuck,


That is very encouraging to hear.


Would you say most were tourists or locals.

[David Davis]

FWIW I was also there about 3 weeks ago and it was full on my day and also in perfect condition. They had a huge tournament right that ended right before we played.


They were all locals. I doubt they get many tourists at that course yet. I'm sure they get some but Brazil is not the mecca of golf tourism.

[MCirba]

David,


Even better, thanks.

[Mike_Young]

I have a friend , Nico Barcellos who played at UGA back in the 90's and his sister worked in my office here for a couple of years afterwards.  They were from Porte Allegre and their family was known in Brazilian golf.  He is now the director of golf there and seems excited with how it is going.  I just saw his photos of a full practice area at 7:30 in the evening a few days ago...I still think it will be interesting to see how it develops...

[MClutterbuck]

MClutterbuck,


That is very encouraging to hear.


Would you say most were tourists or locals.

On that particular day there where a bunch of tourists, but it is getting a healthy dose of local play as well.

[MClutterbuck]

The reality is that Rio has a large number of very wealthy people, as well as a large middle income population, all used to paying a lot even for private dining clubs. I think this course and its club house could do very well.


I understand Neil Cleverly is still the superintendent there. I can understand that if he just fell in love with Rio or a Brazilian and took a pay cut, but a sure way to make economics not work that well is to keep a really good and expensive international superintendent.

[Randy Thompson]

The reality is that Rio has a large number of very wealthy people, as well as a large middle income population, all used to paying a lot even for private dining clubs. I think this course and its club house could do very well.


I understand Neil Cleverly is still the superintendent there. I can understand that if he just fell in love with Rio or a Brazilian and took a pay cut, but a sure way to make economics not work that well is to keep a really good and expensive international superintendent.

Marcos,


Maybe in the long term your right but I have also seen way to often, turning over to the locals before the proper structure is formed and in one week disasters occurs and the economical consequences are huge. Your generalizing without knowing all the important factors.

[Pat Burke]

The reality is that Rio has a large number of very wealthy people, as well as a large middle income population, all used to paying a lot even for private dining clubs. I think this course and its club house could do very well.


I understand Neil Cleverly is still the superintendent there. I can understand that if he just fell in love with Rio or a Brazilian and took a pay cut, but a sure way to make economics not work that well is to keep a really good and expensive international superintendent.

I would argue, a great superintendent suitable paid can save a facility far more than he makes.  Crappy supers spend to much.
Great supers can give you an amazing product with less.  Saving 10-20% on a budget with a still great product makes an highly paid superintendent very cost effective.