[John Kavanaugh]

Yes, indeed bocce

I assumed you meant to say "douche" ball - which is what I think about when I see these guys roll up in carts blasting music and shot gunning beers.

Ryan.


The only thing more old school in golf than alcoholism is a bad marriage. That's why guys who drink two craft beers and run home to the wife can not support the game on their own. How many sober walkers does it take to keep a club running? Three, two attorneys and a bankruptcy judge.

[BCowan]

John,


Once u have 2 craft beers it's hard to stop.  I don't know many sober walkers...  We walk to justify our high calorie beer.  "craft is proof God wants us to be happy".  craft drinkers support ur 40,000 sqft+ clubhouses. 


Ryan,


I'm pro bocce, anti white tables clothes and what u summed up in your last point. 

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


   I don't report people, I tell them to their face.  if your view is that of opened minded for the sake of open mindedness I find that rather weak.  let's not discuss the financial burden of private golf in the US vs the home of golf.  Conserving our roots and emulating the UK model is much more desirable and worth attempting to conserve.  very wealthy clubs aren't immune to idiots.  It's time for me to start watching Rugby the gentlemens game.

There are five completely unrelated sentences in that paragraph...err grouping of words.
I have no idea what most of that is supposed to mean.
To your first point, what exactly do you "tell them to their face"?

[BCowan]

The biggest deterrent to enjoyment at private clubs are the wanna be cops who spend all day reporting what everyone else is wearing or doing that they  they shouldn't be.These same police people don't repair divots or fix ballmarks-and play slowly.I guess policing is time consuming.Whatever the rules infraction is.  I'm anti tattle tale...

[Jeff Bergeron]

Want to learn and love the game........caddy! The loss of caddy programs has stripped the game of it's new blood.
These other half assed ideas lack substance. I'm betting most of the gods posting on this site were caddies as a kid. What a great way for young people to make money, learn the game, earn a scholarship and learn how to interact with successful adults.

[jeffwarne]

Want to learn and love the game........caddy! The loss of caddy programs has stripped the game of it's new blood.
These other half assed ideas lack substance. I'm betting most of the gods posting on this site were caddies as a kid. What a great way for young people to make money, learn the game, earn a scholarship and learn how to interact with successful adults.

yep agreed, better yet start a youth caddy program.
Check-did that. Have one.
But what works great for us is unlikely to work in Mike's $28 green fee environment.


I'm always amazed that we've allowed the actual game to erode-ridiculous drivers and balls on stupid long stupid courses riddled with artificial hazards, but we freak out about what people wear or listen to(discreetly out of earshot of others)  further fixed for Sean

[Sean_A]

I'm always amazed that we've allowed the actual game to erode-ridiculous drivers and balls on stupid long stupid courses riddled with artificial hazards, but we freak out about what people wear or listen to

Fixed this for you Jeff.  As I made it quite plain previously...I care what I listen to and the chances that some schmuck on a golf course has half a brain about music is slim and none.  I have to endure far too much of what other people like to hear...please not on a golf course...of all places...as well.  Clothes?  Play naked for all I care...just don't ask me to splash sun block on these guys.


Ciao

[BCowan]

Want to learn and love the game........caddy! The loss of caddy programs has stripped the game of it's new blood.
These other half assed ideas lack substance. I'm betting most of the gods posting on this site were caddies as a kid. What a great way for young people to make money, learn the game, earn a scholarship and learn how to interact with successful adults.

yep agreed, better yet start a youth caddy program.
Check-did that. Have one.
But what works great for us is unlikely to work in Mike's $28 green fee environment.


I'm always amazed that we've allowed the actual game to erode-ridiculous drivers and balls on stupid long stupid courses riddled with artificial hazards, but we freak out about what people wear or listen to

The old equipment line.  I voluntary play 1995 equipment.  just played 18 with JP and he dusted everyone off with the 1990 equipment. 


What people wear and listen to is a complete lack of humility.  Humility is one of the main reasons I play golf. It was like the one time I went to a BB King concert. He sported a tux to go along with his sick guitar which had awesome tone to it.  He also applogized to the ladies for hip hop and rap.  It was a coming to Jesus moment.  Greatness, humility, and courage.


Caddie programs are a tax on the game. Bag boys have replaced a caddies value. the war on trolleys is real in the us and of great loss.I




Warne, u should get an honorary membership at Jordans doak track.

[Jeff Bergeron]

I'm always amazed that we've allowed the actual game to erode-ridiculous drivers and balls on stupid long stupid courses riddled with artificial hazards, but we freak out about what people wear or listen to

Fixed this for you Jeff.  As I made it quite plain previously...I care what I listen to and the chances that some schmuck on a golf course has half a brain about music is slim and none.  I have to endure far too much of what other people like to hear...please not on a golf course...of all places...as well.  Clothes?  Play naked for all I care...just don't ask me to splash sun block on these guys.


Ciao





That was Ben Sean, Ben and I are way apart on this.

[jeffwarne]

Back on GCA
Ok enough nontraditional stuff which as demonstrated here may alienatate as many as it attracts-which was a small amount (about 1/2 of a 15 minute segment)of the discusssion
we also discussed simpler, more subtle architecture and building/maintaining courses in a  cost effective way to allow them to remain solvent and eventually thrive.Such maintenance and architecture also promotes faster play creating happy customers and allowing more to go through the gates on a given day-and they may stick around for a drink if they're not already late

[Ronald Montesano]

This thread has turned into a Dali painting. Clocks are melting all over the place.


I think that Ben just defended himself against himself, but I'll need a higher power to confirm.


Guys, you can't take golf with you when you die. Nor can you force the golf you want on subsequent generations. It seems that a lot of you play your golf in tightly-wound, restricted sphincters that call themselves golf clubs. That's good...very good. You'll stay there.


In the meantime, out there in the world, other types of courses and clubs exist. They just might play some music, on certain days only...at certain times only. They also might allow golfers to wear jeans, on certain days only...at certain times only.


I'll gladly join in the fun, on certain days only...at certain times only. On other days, at other clubs and courses, I'll adhere to stricter codes and enjoy myself as well.


I'm looking forward to Jeff's next episode. I encourage all to tune in.

[BCowan]

This thread has turned into a Dali painting. Clocks are melting all over the place.


I think that Ben just defended himself against himself, but I'll need a higher power to confirm.


Guys, you can't take golf with you when you die. Nor can you force the golf you want on subsequent generations. It seems that a lot of you play your golf in tightly-wound, restricted sphincters that call themselves golf clubs. That's good...very good. You'll stay there.


In the meantime, out there in the world, other types of courses and clubs exist. They just might play some music, on certain days only...at certain times only. They also might allow golfers to wear jeans, on certain days only...at certain times only.


I'll gladly join in the fun, on certain days only...at certain times only. On other days, at other clubs and courses, I'll adhere to stricter codes and enjoy myself as well.


I'm looking forward to Jeff's next episode. I encourage all to tune in.

Ron,


   stop presuming and turning this into class warfare.  2ndly those golf clubs are being destroyed by these same moronic ideas because of lack of leadership. We don't have real men these days, they are all chicks.  Do u not understand that these ideas now creep into clubs and public courses and spread like wildfire? 


When I go run in the park, I wear these  things called headphones.  I don't bother others with my music. 


There is a difference between courses founded with this new type of BS and clubs and public courses that have had generations of great leadership that didn't fall for the fads of sneakers with lights in them. Im worried about Golf being destroyed by those trying these ideas and being unable to turn back the clock.  It's nice the old course is closed on Sundays, turning revenue down for tradition.


Lastly, Jeff and Mike are friends of mine.  It troubles me that we are promoting these ideas on GCA, sinking low like Golf Digest that I keep canceling and they keep sending.

[MCirba]

Count me on the side of Caddy Programs, although I do like for them to be optional, or perhaps only required during peak times. 

The rest...I like the ideas espoused about making the game more affordable and maintainable and with a return to simple roots that Jeff Warne mentioned in his last post and that I know is also promoted by Mike Young.

[jeffwarne]

We don't have real men these days, they are all chicks.  Do u not understand that these ideas now creep into clubs and public courses and spread like wildfire?  
 

MAKE GOLF GREAT AGAIN
Signed
Judge Smails Trump Cowan

[MCirba]

Q. Are we not men?

A. We are Devo.

At the rate this thread is going, I'm waiting for the first "Cuck" sighting.   

[Tim Martin]

This thread has turned into a Dali painting. Clocks are melting all over the place.


I think that Ben just defended himself against himself, but I'll need a higher power to confirm.


Guys, you can't take golf with you when you die. Nor can you force the golf you want on subsequent generations. It seems that a lot of you play your golf in tightly-wound, restricted sphincters that call themselves golf clubs. That's good...very good. You'll stay there.


In the meantime, out there in the world, other types of courses and clubs exist. They just might play some music, on certain days only...at certain times only. They also might allow golfers to wear jeans, on certain days only...at certain times only.


I'll gladly join in the fun, on certain days only...at certain times only. On other days, at other clubs and courses, I'll adhere to stricter codes and enjoy myself as well.


I'm looking forward to Jeff's next episode. I encourage all to tune in.

Ron,


   stop presuming and turning this into class warfare.  2ndly those golf clubs are being destroyed by these same moronic ideas because of lack of leadership. We don't have real men these days, they are all chicks.  Do u not understand that these ideas now creep into clubs and public courses and spread like wildfire?  


When I go run in the park, I wear these  things called headphones.  I don't bother others with my music. 


There is a difference between courses founded with this new type of BS and clubs and public courses that have had generations of great leadership that didn't fall for the fads of sneakers with lights in them. Im worried about Golf being destroyed by those trying these ideas and being unable to turn back the clock.  It's nice the old course is closed on Sundays, turning revenue down for tradition.


Lastly, Jeff and Mike are friends of mine.  It troubles me that we are promoting these ideas on GCA, sinking low like Golf Digest that I keep canceling and they keep sending.

https://youtu.be/lbS2KSRUVHo

[Bill_McBride]

With regards to music on the course - I know a number of juniors who have taken to listening to music using in-ear headphones plugged into their latest newfangled mobile.


Apparently it helps them to concentrate?


Knowing the genres of music my 11-year old son listens to, dubstep and 'drum and bass', I'm surprised he can swing the club at all given the 140bpm tempo - although he seems to have little trouble.


Me? I'd rather listen to Einaudi, Brian Eno or Tangerine Dream if I could just get used to wearing the bloomin' headphones!

I wonder what the USGA rule book says about that in competition. 

[Bill_McBride]

Ben,
A SiriusXM "prescription"


OK that one made me laugh out loud.
I'm going to steal that.
"PGA Tour Network-the cure for what ails you".


Discovery Land is trying to attract members and sell property.
Mike Young is trying to attract customers.
Who said golf was dying?
In fact the theme of the show was that golf was doing much better than people commonly say or report.
No one on the show implied anyone was elite, or not elite-I'd say The Bridge and The Fields are complete opposite ends of the income spectrum yet have many things in common.
I love traditional clubs-I love nontraditional clubs.


What are we worried about spreading like wildfire? Fun?

Jeff, you've been to The Fields?   Really fun course, couldn't be more relaxed, and loved seeing Mike grilling burgers while his son was ringing up green fees.  If that course and its atmosphere was in my backyard I would stop spending the cost of a compact car at my club every year!

[jeffwarne]

But Bill, if that course was in our backyard and Mike was grilling, we'd be the SIZE of a compact car....

[Bill_McBride]

But Bill, if that course was in our backyard and Mike was grilling, we'd be the SIZE of a compact car....

Speak for yourself, I have great self discipline

[jeffwarne]

But Bill, if that course was in our backyard and Mike was grilling, we'd be the SIZE of a compact car....

Speak for yourself, I have great self discipline

Very few can avoid the temptation of a Mike Young weiner....
.... sounds like a NY Post headline

[Bob Montle]

Some random comments.

I was told I couldn't wear black denims at Sapphire last weekend even though there were only 4 cars in the parking lot.
Whereas at TOC denims are just fine.  Go figure.

That day at Sapphire, work crews were leaf-blowing the fairways and greens.  If that wasn't bad enough, they had boom-boxes blasting full volume in their work carts.
But I couldn't wear denims.

As for music, I don't mind other golfers playing music as long as I can't hear it while I'm hitting. 

I love you Ben, but maybe a few too many craft brews before some of your earlier comments? I think I got your points but the clarity was lacking. 

Walking nine holes is a great way to get some exercise.  I do it three times a week, usually in about 70 minutes or less.  But at my course only a few of us old farts walk - all the young uns zip around in carts. Why?  Cause the carts hold their coolers full of beer, ice and cheap whisky.

Many moons ago when I lived in Michigan, my foursome would split the cost of getting one cart.  It would hold some of the clubs and all the beverages and snacks, and would last us for 45 holes.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ron,
That's my name...please wear it out...or where it out?    
stop presuming and turning this into class warfare.  2ndly those golf clubs are being destroyed by these same moronic ideas because of lack of leadership. We don't have real men these days, they are all chicks.  Do u not understand that these ideas now creep into clubs and public courses and spread like wildfire? 
Real men commit atrocities. Real men are the stuff of empires and overthrows. You and others who want real men who haven't evolved, who still think that they can bully people into submission, will soon die off. Even wildfire leaves ash from which newer, stronger growth springs.


When I go run in the park, I wear these  things called headphones.  I don't bother others with my music. 

No one would be bothered by your music. People who think they are inconveniencing others, tend to reflect that projection onto themselves. If you are running by people, they won't hear your music for more than a second, you speed demon!


There is a difference between courses founded with this new type of BS and clubs and public courses that have had generations of great leadership that didn't fall for the fads of sneakers with lights in them. Im worried about Golf being destroyed by those trying these ideas and being unable to turn back the clock.  It's nice the old course is closed on Sundays, turning revenue down for tradition.

Sneakers with light in them were a golf fad? Did I miss that one? I went directly from metal spikes to soft spikes to no spikes.
Lastly, Jeff and Mike are friends of mine.  It troubles me that we are promoting these ideas on GCA, sinking low like Golf Digest that I keep canceling and they keep sending.

Is there a segue from Jeff and Mike being friends to promoting these ideas on GCA? Sometimes young rock stars mature into decent, middle-aged folk; sometimes young Eddie Haskells mature into constipated, narrow-minded, tormentors of freedom.

[BCowan]

Real men commit atrocities. Real men are the stuff of empires and overthrows. You and others who want real men who haven't evolved, who still think that they can bully people into submission, will soon die off. Even wildfire leaves ash from which newer, stronger growth springs.
There u go presuming again. Real men are against everything.  Evolving for the sake of evloving isnt always noble.  Now ur throwing out the bully card, playing the victum when you are confronted with people who want to preserve all the great ethos of the game.  Wildfires do restore the land asuming there are any decent people to carry on the game.  You don't grasp how refreshing it is to have people tell others that an action isn't good for the game, but it's better to tattle tail and not tell someone to their face.
No one would be bothered by your music. People who think they are inconveniencing others, tend to reflect that projection onto themselves. If you are running by people, they won't hear your music for more than a second, you speed demon!

I don't have a problem with someone wearing headphones.  I do have a problem with speakers. 

Sneakers with light in them were a golf fad? Did I miss that one? I went directly from metal spikes to soft spikes to no spikes.

U really haven't evolved well, but I will help u out.  I was using sneakers with lights fad to make an anology of how ur ideas of destroying golf correlate.

Is there a segue from Jeff and Mike being friends to promoting these ideas on GCA? Sometimes young rock stars mature into decent, middle-aged folk; sometimes young Eddie Haskells mature into constipated, narrow-minded, tormentors of freedom.


No, you promoted them.  Im sure you are in the camp of rolling back the golf ball and then claim ur a freedom lover the next breath.  Double talking jive.  Narrow minded cop out is just that.  Destroying a gentlemens game isn't virtuous. 

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