Jeff Warne and Mike Young on PGA Tour radio this AM

[Ronald Montesano]

You might be aware that Jeff Warne is on the McLean show on Sirius' PGA Tour Radio on Sunday mornings (and maybe some others.) I tuned in today to hear a convo about ways to make golf more appealing and accessible to new and old generations. They also had a guy on from Discovery Land, talking about Silo Ridge near Albany, NY.


I was very intrigued by what I heard. At first blush, the nay-sayer in me called out "You can't do that! You'll alter the fiber of the game." Then, I came to and realized that we won't have a game, so there won't be a fiber, unless we attract new blood.


What was considered were things like music on the course (I laughed when the Discovery guy talked about caddies being unable to carry boomboxes around...is he stuck in the 1980s? Has he not heard of bluetooth and tiny, powerful speakers?) altered dress codes and screens in golf carts, to watch football games on fall Saturdays and Sundays.


I suspect that the highest-end clubs will always be a sign of wealth, and so they will always appeal to a segment of the population. That's fine; we need skyscrapers. We also need golf courses for the people, golf clubs for the less-than-elite class, and golfing grounds for those entering and leaving this golfing life. If reversed hats, jeans, untucked shirts and a little bump are needed to bring them in, s'allright.


Architectural connection? It reasons that the more golfers we have, the greater than number that will one day ponder the origin of their golfing grounds, or be exposed to one of us, and a love of architecture will be hatched.

[Sean_A]

You might be aware that Jeff Warne is on the McLean show on Sirius' PGA Tour Radio on Sunday mornings (and maybe some others.) I tuned in today to hear a convo about ways to make golf more appealing and accessible to new and old generations. They also had a guy on from Discovery Land, talking about Silo Ridge near Albany, NY.


What was considered were things like music on the course (I laughed when the Discovery guy talked about caddies being unable to carry boomboxes around...is he stuck in the 1980s? Has he not heard of bluetooth and tiny, powerful speakers?) altered dress codes and screens in golf carts, to watch football games on fall Saturdays and Sundays.

So have the 19th on the first 18...or bring the bar to the course.  If golf isn't enough to captivate the attention of people...let them sit in the bar.  Music is bad enough, but to have sports on cart tv....jeepers...lets hope not.  Its a slippery slope folks...then before you know it folks have to join a private club to escape the noise.


Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm not going to quote everything; folks can scroll back up.


It's not a slippery slope, as it's not for every course. Ever wonder why bowling and tennis are stagnant? It's because nothing separates one bowling house/tennis court from another. Golf has much potential to offer different experiences, based on the type of course. We have three municipal courses within the Buffalo city limits. 2 are 9-hole and 1 is 18. Why shouldn't a 9-hole course in a park setting, where young people are balling, jogging, blading, etc., bump out a few tunes from time to time, to try to reel in some new fish?


I didn't think I had to be so explicit, Ciao-Man. If you read it as "every course/club must do this," I guess that I should have elaborated more and better.

[jeffwarne]

We do have a listener....
Shameless plug-Next week Tom Doak and Guy Yocum. 8 am Channel 93 XM and 208 Sirius

Thanks Ron,
Actually it was me who made the joke about boomboxes, not the "Discovery guy" (Brian Crowell-Head Professional at Silo Ridge, MET PGA President and SiriusXM and GOLF Channel announcer/host)
-as we are walking only and they were referring to music on carts.( I probably am stuck in the 80's but I'd say Brian is pretty cutting edge)
and to clarify,
Jim McLean is on MY show on Mondays, and Sundays are me solo


Sean,
I know they stopped playing quality football years ago north of the Mason -Dixon line (this year notwithstanding ) but courses are EMPTY in the fall on Saturdays in the SEC South, the best weather and course condition time of the year.
A savvy course operator like Mike Young has to find a way to get players out on the course on a Saturday-my guess is any Football noise would be met with "What's the score?"
A private club won't help you in this case as Brian's Discovery course is private and he's the one who brought it up and promotes it at his club.
Frankly though you could play it at full volume currently after 12 pm and no one notice in the South.


We also discussed a lot of things we do at The Bridge-
no restrictions on when a junior can play or practice-as long as they have been approved-which is a matter of pace and ettiquette.
Innovative jr. clinics,programs and play days
no dress code-but 99% of members and guests look like they could be at any strict dress coded private club(especially the kids, who copy the look of the pros)
The no dress code is most helpful with nongolf friends and family who want to come by for lunch or the view and not feet intimidated in a stuffy environment-then we hook them on the golf-especially with our new 5 hole Brian Schneider par 3.
we don't have a rule against music but it rarely is played and would have to be unnoticed by other groups (or me as I ranger by-only one complaint in 15 years-and all they wanted was a different genre   )
Again, no carts so football watching might be a little impractical while walking.


The only real rule we have (besides no cell phones)is that you can't do anything which interferes with someone else's enjoyment of the club-I get to be the judge of that which while occasionally sticky, is way easier than enforcing a bunch of Judge Smailslike rules with little basis in logic.


Discovery Land is trying to think outside the box and inject some youth in their clubs,
Mike Young is trying to make a living,maximize his prime time weather, and  keep his customers happy and returning.
The Bridge? a little of both but frankly we are in a much easier market and currently sold out.


and Sean remember the 19th can also be the 1st
Live and let live

[BCowan]

Thank God my siriusxm subscription doesn't allow me to get PGA TOUR radio.  "This is the big one...Elizabeth, I'm coming to visit you"


Your building a stairway to hell and should be ashamed of urselves.  Don't advertise uncluttered course and fast play.


Bowling and Tennis serve their markets and the more I read GCA the more I'm leaning to picking up back my racquet and joining a bowling league and quitting golf.  This shit will spread like wildfire the same way sneakers with lights in them did. 


   Calling folks who enjoy golf on a course with ethos and a deep respect for the game elitist like pisses me off.  My grandfather was a plummer, paid his dues at a local golf club and was proud of it.  To see these regressive ideas toted as non elitist pisses me off.  I'm finding better ethos at Doak 3s more so then private 5s.  Hard core golfers will leave the game, pat ur back while we dumb the game down more.


Rounds are up in many markets. this bs the game is dying is complete bs.  [size=78%]I need to build my backyard course sooner then planned.  [/size]

[Sean_A]

I'm not going to quote everything; folks can scroll back up.

It's not a slippery slope, as it's not for every course. Ever wonder why bowling and tennis are stagnant? It's because nothing separates one bowling house/tennis court from another. Golf has much potential to offer different experiences, based on the type of course. We have three municipal courses within the Buffalo city limits. 2 are 9-hole and 1 is 18. Why shouldn't a 9-hole course in a park setting, where young people are balling, jogging, blading, etc., bump out a few tunes from time to time, to try to reel in some new fish?

I didn't think I had to be so explicit, Ciao-Man. If you read it as "every course/club must do this," I guess that I should have elaborated more and better.

Reasonable people can disagree...and golf already offers incredibly different experiences from course to course.  I hope you are right and that the low end public places don't become huge fields with 70 bars on wheels rolling around squeeking out crap country music. 

The notion that golf needs to grow to be healthy is bollocks.  What is a healthy number of golfers?  Is it 10,000,000, 50,000,000...what...what is the goal? This incessant need to reinvent the game is very perplexing unless one is trying to make money from the game...in which case...well...do what ever the hell you want...its got nothing to do with me nor with golf. Once we are into this realm of discussion, golf is just the cover story of discussions about money. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Ben,
A SiriusXM "prescription"


OK that one made me laugh out loud.
I'm going to steal that.
"PGA Tour Network-the cure for what ails you".


Discovery Land is trying to attract members and sell property.
Mike Young is trying to attract customers.
Who said golf was dying?
In fact the theme of the show was that golf was doing much better than people commonly say or report.
No one on the show implied anyone was elite, or not elite-I'd say The Bridge and The Fields are complete opposite ends of the income spectrum yet have many things in common.
I love traditional clubs-I love nontraditional clubs.


What are we worried about spreading like wildfire? Fun?

[BCowan]

[size=78%]It bothers me that Mike is going to those measures.  [/size]
The first time I heard music on the course was at private course in metro detroit. traditional.  worried about spreading of tools like wildfire.  Fun my ass.  Fun is making a 5 footer to win the match. 

[MCirba]

Didnt bowling move to black lights and "Rock and Bowl" and countless other novelty items?


Tennis is dying because the baby boom generation threw out their knees hips and ankles.  Morbid obesity and eating habits drove the nail into the coffin as well.


Why introduce so much man-made artifice into a game where the primary attraction is really just getting out and taking a great nature walk in a competitive environment?

[Ronald Montesano]

And the Democratic party thought it had the White House sewn up, Sean and Pat.


A little man-made articifice goes a long way.


Courses with a healthy membership/clientele need not add any MMA.


As JW suggests, many courses south of that there line need golfers in the fall, and their fall is way longer than a Philly fall, a Michigan fall or a Minnesota fall.


I do now understand how Trump won the White House. I have iterated that this does not apply TO EVERY COURSE, and yet some of you illiterates (or should I say, deplorables) continue to read into it what YOU WANT TO READ (and yes, I am shouting.)


Land sakes. Not every college is a Yale or a Vincennes, not every hunk is a Dwayne Johnson or a Stephen Hawking, and not every golf course needs a little bump and hustle.


xoxo
Bad Hair Wimberly

[jeffwarne]

[size=78%]It bothers me that Mike is going to those measures.  [/size]
The first time I heard music on the course was at private course in metro detroit. traditional.  worried about spreading of tools like wildfire.  Fun my ass.  Fun is making a 5 footer to win the match.

your edit took my fun away.......
I can't say I've played music myself on the course before, but I have been in a group recently where it was playing and it was fun.
hard to see that ruining the game-but inconsiderate people can ruin anything.
I'd say pace of play is a way bigger issue and size/walkability of modern and redesigned courses brought on by(perceived) equipment gains.
I used to play in money games in the south 30 years ago 8somes with single carts, beer coolers, and stereos so these are hardly "grow the game" new ideas. And we played  9 holes in an hour.
Played in an 18 some at Goat Hill once when invited by members to help them "break" the course record.
(we didn't) Huge fun.
Played with  the President of a very well known GCA iconic course once-Zero fun.


Live and let live.


and Mike Cirba I agree with your last line as well in a perfect world-and there's room for both kinds of places

[Neil White]

With regards to music on the course - I know a number of juniors who have taken to listening to music using in-ear headphones plugged into their latest newfangled mobile.


Apparently it helps them to concentrate?


Knowing the genres of music my 11-year old son listens to, dubstep and 'drum and bass', I'm surprised he can swing the club at all given the 140bpm tempo - although he seems to have little trouble.


Me? I'd rather listen to Einaudi, Brian Eno or Tangerine Dream if I could just get used to wearing the bloomin' headphones!

[Tom Allen]

Two listeners.    I enjoy the show.

And PGA Tour Radio is only reason I have my subscription.  (OK, OK, I'm a golf nerd with a problem.)

[Tim Martin]

[size=78%]It bothers me that Mike is going to those measures.  [/size]
The first time I heard music on the course was at private course in metro detroit. traditional.  worried about spreading of tools like wildfire.  Fun my ass.  Fun is making a 5 footer to win the match.

your edit took my fun away.......
I can't say I've played music myself on the course before, but I have been in a group recently where it was playing and it was fun.
hard to see that ruining the game-but inconsiderate people can ruin anything.
I'd say pace of play is a way bigger issue and size/walkability of modern and redesigned courses brought on by(perceived) equipment gains.
I used to play in money games in the south 30 years ago 8somes with single carts, beer coolers, and stereos so these are hardly "grow the game" new ideas. And we played  9 holes in an hour.
Played in an 18 some at Goat Hill once when invited by members to help them "break" the course record.
(we didn't) Huge fun.
Played with  the President of a very well known GCA iconic course once-Zero fun.


Live and let live.


and Mike Cirba I agree with your last line as well in a perfect world-and there's room for both kinds of places

Jeff-For a guy with old school golf roots you have an extremely open mind about the game and it's ever evolving culture. Great stuff man!!!!!!

[jeffwarne]

No worries Tim,
I'm still wearing those pleated cuffed cotton khakis and Donald Ross shirts.
Fine line between Old School and simply out of fashion I guess


Plenty of room for all kinds of golf events, all kinds of facilities, and all kinds of players.


But that's really nothing new.I remember many members and juniors wearing blue jeans growing up at Augusta CC, I remember a few shirtless rounds at Augusta Golf Club. And at Garden City Men's, there are many shirtless rounds played.


The biggest deterrent to enjoyment at private clubs are the wanna be cops who spend all day reporting what everyone else is wearing or doing that they feel they shouldn't be.
These same police people don't repair divots or fix ballmarks-and play slowly.
I guess policing is time consuming.

[BCowan]

Jeff,


   I don't report people, I tell them to their face.  if your view is that of opened minded for the sake of open mindedness I find that rather weak.  let's not discuss the financial burden of private golf in the US vs the home of golf.  Conserving our roots and emulating the UK model is much more desirable and worth attempting to conserve.  very wealthy clubs aren't immune to idiots.  It's time for me to start watching Rugby the gentlemens game. 

[MCirba]

I'd like to see Lester George weigh in here.   He did a revamp of Independence Golf Club near Richmond, VA that was intended to speed play (owner's idea), but the place also wrapped a whole bunch of "family activities" around the venue that were non-golf related.

I can't tell you all the details but I'm sure Lester can and I'd be interested to hear what's working and what's not after some time period.

[Sean_A]

No worries Tim,
I'm still wearing those pleated cuffed cotton khakis and Donald Ross shirts.
Fine line between Old School and simply out of fashion I guess


Plenty of room for all kinds of golf events, all kinds of facilities, and all kinds of players.


But that's really nothing new.I remember many members and juniors wearing blue jeans growing up at Augusta CC, I remember a few shirtless rounds at Augusta Golf Club. And at Garden City Men's, there are many shirtless rounds played.


The biggest deterrent to enjoyment at private clubs are the wanna be cops who spend all day reporting what everyone else is wearing or doing that they feel they shouldn't be.
These same police people don't repair divots or fix ballmarks-and play slowly.
I guess policing is time consuming.

A dress code isn't nearly the same thing as creating noise.  I don't care in the least how people dress because it doesn't effect me. You stole my line...live and let live 


Ciao

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pickleball is the future. It's even growing on the east coast and not just in "active adult" communities in AZ & FL. I've seen tennis courts with yellow painted lines so pickleball can be played without building new courts. We have 1400 members here in our Pickleball Club and there are 20 pickleball courts.


5 hour rounds are killing golf.  We had our opening Couples event yesterday. A Scramble with 32 foursomes took 5 hours to complete. Torture. Luckily, most non event rounds here are 4 hours or less.

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't mind the noise of music quite so much as the statement it makes. Much like politics and religion, keep your musical tastes to yourself.

[BCowan]

Steve,


Spot on. add Bouche ball and clubs can sell more booze to help offset clubhouse loses. 

[Tim Martin]

Steve,


Spot on. add Bouche ball and clubs can sell more booze to help offset clubhouse loses.

What is bouche ball? Do you mean bocce ball?

[BCowan]

Yes, indeed bocce

[Tim Martin]

Yes, indeed bocce

It really is the perfect game to have booze at the ready and a lot of fun.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Yes, indeed bocce

I assumed you meant to say "douche" ball - which is what I think about when I see these guys roll up in carts blasting music and shot gunning beers.