News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


BCowan

Michigan Top 25 Rankings (2016) List with Reviews New
« on: November 16, 2016, 02:59:14 PM »
1. Crystal Downs 8.68 (12 votes)- The story goes that Alister Mackenzie was not particularly enthused to be diverting his travel from California to Georgia to head to this remote destination on the shores of Lake Michigan, but that when he caught his first glimpse of the incredible sleeping Bear Dunes upon which the course were to sit, his attitude improved dramatically.  Those dunes provide the landscape for an unparalleled golf experience in the region, with nary an even lie to be found and creativity at a premium on the similarly bold contours of the greens set into their surroundings so naturally and beautifully.  The front nine, the 10th, and the 18th spill out over the open rolling terrain, while the second nine loops out and back through a rugged transition area (home of the 11th and 17th) and gently swaying stretch of land atop the bluff of Lake Michigan.  Playing to a par of 70, one would be advised to abandon their scorecard concerns during a tour of ''The Downs'', and instead devote their focus to the pure joy of interacting with this incredible land served so well by golf's greatest course architect.

2. Greywalls 8.5 (3 votes)-  Is rugged, adventurous, thrilling, and - above all- fun.  There is simply no other golf course I've encountered or heard of to rival its dramatic setting.  The front nine routes the player around, between, and over several rocky outcroppings and bold fairway contours and rewards them with multiple expansive views of Lake Superior!  The back nine begins along the top of the property before diving into a sandy valley for the bulk of its holes, providing a relatively mild interlude before climbing back to the top on the 16th and 17th and racing down one last time on the 18th.  Its comparisons to an exhilarating roller coaster are entirely apt, and upon reaching the bottom, one can't help but want to rush right back to the 1st tee and start it all over again.  The architecture mathces up beautifully, with rugged edges and bold contours rewarding creativity and inspiring awe.  It's and incredibly memorable golf experience unlike any other and absolutely should not be missed. 

3. Oakland Hills (South) 8.19 (15 votes)- There is a famous saying that if you need to make an argument that someone belongs in the Hall of Fame, they don't.  Another says that HOF's should have two wings.  One for all the Craig Biggio, Jerome Bettis, and Mitch Richmond's of the world and another Pantheon Wing for the Willie Mays, Joe Montana's, and Michael Jordan's!  Golf course rankings are much the same.  There is no difference other than taste between the 50th and 120th ranked course in the US, but there is a Pantheon Room for the best of the best.  There is no perfect way to describe it; you just know when you are playing one. Oakland Hills South belongs in the Pantheon Room.  Your first impression is how big and bold everything is.  The property feels massive and the greens are beyond treacherous.  Crystal Downs is maybe the only other midwest course with a better green complexes then Oakland South.  The course demands complete attention for every shot and there may not be a better course anywhere for fairway bunkering and framing.  Through 14 holes, you are dazzled with the variety and demands of the course.  Then you hit the closing stretch.   There may not be a better four hole sequence in golf then 15-18 at OHCC South.  Every tee and approach shot requires absolute precision and just ask Davis Love and Tom Lehman about the challenges of the putting surfaces down the stretch.  Ben Hogan affectionately called OHCC South ''The Monster''.  Anyone who has played it just calls in amazing!

4. Franklin Hills 7.89 (16 votes)- It really shines with the one shooters.  The set of par 3's are the best in the area IMO.  I have never played a course that had as many amazing/world class holes as Franklin does.  The 2nd has great strategic choices off the tee with a fabulous green tilted back to front with a false front.  The 9th is an amazing par 3 that is most exhilarating when the pin is in the left side of the green.  The 13th is one of my all time favorite drive and pitch holes and is a beautiful example of a Volcano hole.  The greens at Franklin are very good.  Some green have very good tilt, some with bold internal contours, and other ones with great false fronts.  A walk at Franklin is not to be missed. 

5. Orchard Lake 7.86 (13 votes)- Is the album that you'd never heard, but is instantly your new favorite album.  After you finish the front nine, there's a pause for a reflective walk across Old Orchard Trail.  It's like flipping the album from Side A to Side B.  You think to yourself, ''No way can the second side be better than the first.''  Then it is.  The par 3's are very strong, but the whole course comes together as a unit.  I really can't recall a weak spot.  Course conditions were easily a ten the day we played, and I suspect they are like that most days.  I can only hope that I get many more rounds at OLCC because I really look forward to hearings things during those rounds that I missed the first time around.

6. Kingsley Club 7.66 (11 votes)- KC, is a modern masterpiece designed by Mike DeVries that spits in the face of its detractors.  Set in a sandy area of Kingsley, MI just south of Traverse City lies one of the best modern golf courses in the world.  KC can best be described as burly but does not lack for substance and/or finesse.  The detractors of KC believe that the course is too penal and in some ways overdone.  I vehemently argue these points as KC was routed over the natural landscape with very little earth moving and takes the golfer perfectly through the rolling hills of Northern Michigan.

        KC has a very interesting and diverse set of Par 3's, 4's, and 5's.  I would argue that the collection and variety of Par 3's rival nearly any in the world.  I also believe that KC has one of the best collections of green complexes within the Top 100 modern golf courses.  Holes of note are #2, #8, #13, and #15.  #2 is a devilish short Par 3 that requires the golfer to factor in the wind and the visual deception of this creatively done short hole.  #8 is a medium length Par 4 that requires some thought off the tee.  Do I lay up short of the bunkers straight away or take on the tiny sliver of fairway on the left or right of the cluster of natural and rugged bunkers.  The approach is uphill to a green complex that drops off on both sides.  #9 from the west tee is one of the most controversial holes on the golf course.  A short Par 3 that plays downhill presents plenty of problems for the golfer that misses left with a left pin and long with a right pin.  If long to a back right pin, one must exhibit nerves of steel for a chance at par.  #13 is a short and drivable Par 4 that has been debated ad nauseam on the GCA DB.  any hole creating that much discussion deserves a spot among the elite.  #15 is another controversial hole that moves slightly left but requires the golfer to hit a high long iron or fairway wood to an elevated green set over on a hill to the right.  I have come to appreciate this hole and respect the difficulty it poses as the golfer is rewrded with a short and fairly benign Par 5 17th hole. 

   In closing, I would suggest that KC evaluate the possibility of flipping the 9's (i.e. #10 becomes #1 and #9 becomes #18) #9 at KC represents all that is good with KC- devilish, exhilarating, quirky, difficult, etc.  Flipping #9 to #18 would present the kind of finishing hole that KC deserves!  Every play at KC unlocks something new and I can't think of a course in the US that I would rather play on a day-in and day-out basis.  For me, this is the #1 criteria that I use to evaluate a golf course. 

7. Indianwood Old 7.12 (16 votes)- Is one of my favorites to play.  The terrain is excellent, the vistas looking over the native fescues are spectacular and if the wind is blowing, it will test all aspects of your game.  It has an excellent amount of quirk, like the short 9th hole and severely canted fairway on the 2nd hole and a wild 18th green, mixed with strong Par 4's like #4, #12, and #16.  The green surfaces have a slight tendency to be redundant but not enough to affect the overall quality and test of golf.  It's a must play for anyone who loves the game.

8. Lost Dunes 6.93 (3 votes)-  Is built on heaving terrain astride I-94 near the Indiana border.  (The highway really isn't a big deal, except making for a longer walk.)  The greens are crazy wild, even by Doak standards.  Yes, I had the obligatory 4-putt on #4.  The Par 3's and par 5's aren't in a class with other Doak courses I've played (Pacific Dunes, High Pointe, and Black Forest), but the Par 4's are varied, wonderfully bunkered, and tons of fun. 

8. Battle Creek 6.93 (9 votes)- Passes all of my tests as a fine golf course.  Fantastic green complexes, par is definitely defended at the green.  Beautiful rolling terrain, a wonderful walk in the park.  Play every day and not get bored, most definitely.  BCCC is as close to an original Willie Park Jr as I think you are going to find.  Given that you have a former Super as GM, he and the Super have superbly restored the green complexes and shot values without spending a fortune.  I'd classify BCCC as the most underrated golf course in Michigan!  A must play for those that love Golden Age Golf.

10. Arcadia Bluffs 6.84 (13 votes)- Lake Michigan, sand dunes, and golf.  It's hard to go wrong with that combination.  Where many great courses are subtle, Arcadia is dramatic.  The most memorable holes are certainly the ones on the edge or playing down to the edge of the lake. The par three 13th is as thrilling as you'll find anywhere without the need to rely on server elevation change or other tricks.  Arcadia has maybe the best 19th hole view in the whole world.  The way the sunset lights the course and melts into the lake is one of the most peaceful and serene experiences out there.

10. University of Michigan 6.84 (13 votes)- Is the central park for Golf in Ann Arbor.  To be blessed with this bold and intimate piece of land so close to downtown is wonderful.  The routing choices made are very interesting due to a ridge running through the course.  Some great restoration work is being done now with green reclaiming and tree removal.  To simplify what is great about UofM, is the moment one leave the 18th green they can't wait to hit the 1st tee again.  Fun is also the word one thinks of when describing UofM, even if one's game is off it has enough balance of interesting holes to keep one in the game.  Nothing would please me more, then for the UofM course to be restored to its former glory. 

12. CC of Detroit 6.67 (10 votes)- After a decade of dying greens, bunkers redone by Foster, greens and tees rebuilt by Doak, a new 17th green relocated by Doak, and a thousand trees removed by both Doak and Foster, the CCD course is as close to Charles Hugh Alison's 1926 vision as it has been since WWII. Certainly Michigan's best and one of the country's best flat land courses, the CCD uses its shallow lake bottom sand ridges to good advantage.  Doak has eliminated Trent Jones' 1954 aircraft carrier tee's and has relocated them to original directional positions.  The back tees are now are placed into the existing grade where the low ridges obscure the landing areas as originally intended by Alison.  The result is a wide course that exacts a penalty for tee shots to the wrong side of fairways for the good players while allowing the average golfer to enjoy their afternoon.  The tree removal highlights the remaining specimen trees and they help define the wonderful parkland course.

13. Forest Dunes 6.64 (11 votes)- Ohio State Buckeye Tom Weiskopf brought all of his skills to the table when he built Forest Dunes in the Wolverine State.  Known for building great short Par 4's, Weiskopf didn't disappoint in building the fun and strategic 6th and 17th holes.  Moreover, the land was so good that Weiskopf didn't stop at just 18 holes, he built a fun one-shot bye hole that has a Riviera-style bunker in the middle of the green to settle bets at the end.  Forest Dunes is a great blend of tree-lined fairways, common in Northern Michigan, and exposed sandy areas, less common in the state. The design winds its way back and forth, taking the player from narrow holes to more open and exposed holes and then back again.   The back nine crescendos with several good holes before finishing with a fun match-settling holes such as #15, #17, and #18 which are open to birdies or better, but can bring bogeys or worse into the picture as well if the player doesn't excute.  Many people play Forest Dunes on the way to somewhere else, but now that Tom Doak's reversible course, The Loop, opened in 2016, Forest Dunes will likely become more of a destination restort, and will get even more attention and play.  While it's a bit off the beaten path, Forest Dunes is clearly worth experiencing-- one tip though... BRING BUG SPRAY!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 12:10:57 AM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 02:59:34 PM »
14. Point O' Woods 6.6 (6 votes)- The mile drive from Roslyn Road leads you to the Frank Lloyd Wright inspired clubhouse reminiscent of the Ina Morris Harper house in nearby St Joseph.  Home of the Western Amateur for 30 years, the largest attended amateur golf tournament in the nation, it hosted many future tour players and the list of champions is much more impressive than that of the US Amateur.  A list that includes, Ryan Moore, Tiger Woods, Justin Leonard, and Phil Michelson, and even a couple guys the GCA crew knows like, Ben Crenshaw and Tom Weiskopf.
 
     It starts out with a benign two shooter with a huge fairway no one should miss, it gets your round started and gets play moving.  After that, it's a back ad forth battle with RTJ stepping on your throat with narrow demanding tree shots, huge bunkers, and huge greens separated into segments demanding an accurate approach shot.  Occasionally RTJ takes his foot off your throat so you can grab a quick breath by giving you a short hole where you feel you can score, like the short 8th after playing the demanding 6th and 7th.

     The course is a great walk where you can use every club in your bag.  The features are on a grand scale, the 12th green is over a quarter acre and the 13th tee is 150 yards long!  Technology has changed the Point over the years, not only golf equipment but Turf equipment and technology making even a course built on horrible soil play more firm and fast so there are more Eagle opportunities than ever before.  Overall its a spectacular golf course that you can play day after day and not tire of it.  They need to keep the chainsaws running. 

15. Barton Hills 6.54 (14 votes)- Like many courses in SE Michigan, it's another Donald Ross Gem (1919), highlighted by a diverse set of undulated greens uniquely fitting the holes they lay on.  I consider the course largely a 2nd shot golf course as the fairways are generous and hazards generally not in play off the tee.  It's a course where angles into greens really means something if you want to score as just hitting the green doesn't always equate to good scoring opportunities.  While the course has a series of long Par 4's from the back tee, I consider the short Par 4, 4th and 12th to be the most enjoyable and interesting holes.  They can be easy birdies if played correctly, sometimes with only a long iron and wedge, but often times a misplaced approach ends in 3 putts or impossible up and downs.  The course has been much improved in recent years with a Ron Prichard ''Restoration'' with tree removal programs that is opened up the views of the course as well as improved Turf and play-ability. 

16. Belvedere 6.43 (10 votes)-  Is classy, but not up-tight.  Laid-back, but not sloppy.  From the opening elevated tee shot to the putts on the home hole, it's a GREAT walk.  Suitable for all kinds of players and equipment.  Stand-out holes are the excellent Par 4 7th, the Par 3 8th with its infinity green and lone tree, the short Par 4 11th and it's model green, the 12th with its rolling fairway, and the raised but shallow-greened 16th.  Sleeper holes are the half Par 4th, the dog legged 6th, and the bunkerless Par 3 17th.  Three (three!) of Belvedere's holes were featured in George Thomas' ''Golf Architecture in America'' book.  There should be more courses and clubs like Belvedere.  Simply put, Belvedere is what's good about Golf!

17. Bloomfield Hills 6.21 (10 votes)-  Is one of only 2 Harry Colt courses left in North America!  The strength of BH is the set of par 3's.  The 9th, 11th, and 17th are really great one shooter and can match any in the city!  The course has done a semi complete restoration with Keith Foster a few years back removing over 700 trees and re-grassing the greens.  The course sits on beautiful rolling terrain.  The 10th and the 15th are very strong drive and pitch holes.  The 10th gives a golfer many options off the tee due to the change in elevation throughout the hole, while #15 temps the long ball hitters to drive the green.  Due to technology many ignorant flat bellies may overlook BHCC, but it gives a good test to most and its architecture is very good!

18. Oakland Hills (North) 6.11 (15 votes)-
  Although clearly the second ranked course on the property, the North Course at OHCC (built in 1923 six years after the South) had hosted several top tier Michigan tournaments, including the State Amateur, prior to acting as the second qualifying course for this year's US Amateur.  If resistance scoring rings a bell it stayed within a stroke and a half margin of the south, mostly due to the greens, but if played at full length the North would have been the equal, or a little longer, than the South.  The course aesthetics today are mainly those of the Jones family as Trent redid it shortly after his work on the South for the '51 Open, think aircraft carrier tees and high lipped bunkering.  He and Rees have made changes to it over the decades since, mostly for drainage as well as the use of the course as the practice, parking, and commercial staging areas for the big tournaments on the South.  The combination of the 1st and 10th tees on the highest point of the property to make a mega practice tee for the Majors is a striking tee platform and allows for expansive views over the property.  The drainage solution to the swampy areas of the back nine, along the north side of the property, have an unmistakable Medinah #2 feel and were completed recently at several million dollars of expense.
  That said, the original 1923 Ross magic in routing a course on a tight (tighter than the expansive South) property is well in evidence and still shines today.  Despite several back and forth parallel holes on relatively flat land, where the land rolls it is well used, with several holes in the excellent category.  I include the par-3 4th, and especially the par-4 17th and 18th holes, as first class on very interesting land.  The 4th is an uphill shot to a terraced green situated on one of the high points of the property where the wind blows free.  The one tree on the hole is a large specimen oak out of play to the left, but it beautifully frames the view.  The hole would fit well at Braid's Gleneagles Kings Course.  The 17th is a strong uphill par-4 beautiful bunkered against a natural hill on the left in the landing area with OB right.  The second shot is to another plateau green back on the higher end of the property.  The hole was considered tough enough by the USGA that the new back tee was not used during the tournament, however even the big hitters had to contend with the single fairway bunker.  The 18th hole is a shorter par-4 fitted in a saddle between two more natural hills.  It allows the long hitter an opportunity to hit driver while the average golfer playing from the member tees has a chance to hit a mid to short iron to the well bunkered green.


19. Eagle Eye 6.1 (4 votes)- Is bold and brutal--but a bit less brutal with each playing. Chris Lutzke worked with Pete Dye and the influence is everywhere, especially on the exact replica of the 17th at TPC Sawgrass.  After 20 plays, though, I find the width and angles plentiful and exciting.  The 9th hole is, in my limited experience, a unique strategic Par 5, with a center-line bunkers, a blind 2nd shot if you play conservatively off the tee, and a green nestled below the fairway against a giant pond.  On the back nine, the three long Par 4's (11, 13, and 16) offer distinctive challenges.  I wouldn't play it every day, but I love playing it 2-3 times each Summer!

20. Birmingham(10 votes)- BCC was originally routed and designed by Tom Bendelow and recently renovated and polished by Bruce Hepner. New fairways, greens, and native areas have grassed.  Over 1,000 trees were removed as part of the renovation process.  BCC now deserves a spot among the elites of Metro Detroit Golf.  BCC has been blessed with great rolling land, a perfect variety of Par 3's (#7, #11, etc.), outstanding brute but beautiful Par 4's (#9), strategic short Par 4's (#5 and #16) and a really fun set of Par 5's (#14 and #18).

    Some highlights are the short Par 5 14th and the short Par 4 16th.  #14 is great short Par 5 that is reachable in two from the correct tee.  The 2nd shot is semi blind and downhill to one of the best green complexes on the course.  The green has great front to back to front movement with some neat little shelves.  #16 is a short dogleg right Par that brings the golfer gradually up a large hill.  The golfer will need to make a decision off the tee as the cross bunkers on the edge of the dogleg present a few options.  Do I hit out to the left or do I take on the grouping of bunkers to leave a shorter approach?  The approach is then straight uphill into a green and approach area that slopes from back to front.  If the golf course is playing firm and fast, an approach shot hit short with spin will come back down toward the golfer.  The green complex has some nice movement and makes for a devilish little hole late in the round.   The staff and golf ocurse are top notch and as BCC new grasses mature and grow, it is sure to receive the recognition it now deserves. 

21. Muskegon 5.9 (7 votes)-  The land at Muskegon is to die for.  The course sits on around 100 acre sand dune with a lake below the property.  The fairways have beautiful micro undulations in them.  On a sunny fall day the course has a majestic feel to it.  The 10th green is the only original Ross green left but the others do a great job of blending in or resembling a Ross green.  There are some nice dome shaped greens such as the 1st and 18th holes.  The course needs more tree removal still.  It has beautiful fescue areas throughout the property.  The club has done a nice job of showcasing early club photos throughout the clubhouse.  I'd really love to see this gem restored and tweaked.  The course is now owned by a couple of members and is doing well in a very rough area.

22. Radrick Farms 5.87 (13 votes)- Built in the early 60's UM's other course is one of Pete Dye's first designs.  A laid back Ann Arbor vibe and tucked away is a great big piece of rolling property makes for an unexpected pleasure on what is a demanding test. On their first visit most people remark "I can't believe this place is here''.  The elevated fall-away tee shots on #9 and  #15 were thrilling when I first encountered them even though they eventually became a cliche in Northern Michigan.  The 8th and 9th are fun short holes, but you had better make your move before you get the 13th- hold on from there to the finish.  I love the secluded setting of the last 3 holes down in the valley.

23. Grosse Ile 5.75 (13 votes)-  This gem located on an island in the Detroit River is not to be missed.  The best green complexes in the area IMO and there is some stiff competition.  The bold ridges and spines running through the greens make 2 putting a task.  Ross simply outdid himself on the greens and these should be studied.  The downfall is the course plays soft most days and it could benefit greatly by some drainage and sand capping work.  The soil is heavy but the routing makes great use of the rolling terrain.  Greens sit on beautiful natural shelve on many holes.  Tree removal is desperately needed as DZ field goal driving is common for most tee shots as a means to protect old man par.  In any city these are the gems I look for, if ever in the Detroit area give this one a go! 

24. Wuskowhan 5.64 (5 votes)  Write up coming later

25. Plum Hollow 5.62 (9 votes)- A classic urban course with tournament history ('47 PGA) from the post-war years, Plum Hollow is defined by the ravine that runs throughout the property.  Holes play through it (#1 and #13) around it (#14) just short of it (#2) and over it (#5 and #9) to name just some of the creative encounters.  Holes (#15 and #16) fell like big old-school US Open holes to me and the love/hate (#18) finishes in a great natural amphitheater.  So happy that the club has survived the great recession and the loss of surrounding demographics, it takes a compelling course to do that and Plum fits the bill.  Not to be missed in the Detroit area!

The 2016 list was made by 16 Michigan GCAers (Ben Cowan, Dan Dingman, Tony Gholz, Peter Pratt, Brian Sleeman, Dustin Ferrell, Dave Wigler, Mike Boehm, Aaron McMaster, Jeff Bergeron, Matt Bielawa, Jim Dales, Terry Poley, Ryan Taylor, Russ Arbuthnot, Brian Schwei).  There was no parameters set on voting other then playing a certain amount of courses form 2015 list.  Each course had to be played 3 times to count.  We used averages and no scores were thrown out this year.  This list encourages our own group to play more courses in Michigan they might not have given a thought too.  It's just as fun to start at the bottom and work your way up.  16 courses had significantly more plays then the following year which is a positive.  The more plays the better the list turns out.

2015 listhttp://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61890.0.html
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 10:56:42 AM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 01:56:32 PM »
Thanks for putting this together Ben.  I notice that The Loop and Dunes Club are missing.  I assume that that's because you haven't played them yet, yes?  Any other top courses in the state that you haven't played?  Having that information would offer useful context to your list.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 09:19:10 PM »
Thanks for putting this together Ben.  I notice that The Loop and Dunes Club are missing.  I assume that that's because you haven't played them yet, yes?  Any other top courses in the state that you haven't played?  Having that information would offer useful context to your list.


Thanks JW.  The loop hasn't been played by any of us to my knowledge.  it needs another year to mature.  The Dunes club is 9 holes and I don't think it's fair to rank it w 18 holers.  In another sense I think 9 holes should be enjoyed. 


Here is my submission..

Orchard Lake  8.5
Franklin Hills   8.1
Kingsley  7.4
Battle Creek  7.2
UofM  6.9
Indianwood Old   6.8
Oakland Hills South  6.7
Belvedere  6.5
Bloomfield Hills  6.4

Diamond Springs  6.3
Barton Hills  6
Muskegon CC  5.9
Grosse Ile  5.8
Birmingham  5.7
Oakland Hills North 5.7
Radrick Farms 5.6
Plum Hollow 5.5
Forest Dunes 5.4
Champion Hills 5.3
Pilgrims Run 5.2
CC Lansing 5.1
Western GCC 5
CC of Jackson 4.9
Flint GC 4.7
Red Run 4.6
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:58:11 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 09:45:07 PM »
Dunes Club has so many sets of tees, especially on the two par-three holes, that it can play as an 18-hole course. I believe that its omission is unwarranted.


If nine-hole courses are meant to be enjoyed, are 18-hole courses meant to be endured?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 02:07:02 AM »
Who put this list together? How many ballots were there? Interesting list. Very different from what I would have done but interesting nonetheless.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 06:48:54 AM »
Who put this list together? How many ballots were there? Interesting list. Very different from what I would have done but interesting nonetheless.


16 mi gcaers, I listed them at the bottom of the page. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:58:36 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2016, 06:54:11 AM »
Dunes Club has so many sets of tees, especially on the two par-three holes, that it can play as an 18-hole course. I believe that its omission is unwarranted.


If nine-hole courses are meant to be enjoyed, are 18-hole courses meant to be endured?


You are entitled to your opinion and we have had this discussion.  it isn't fair to an 18 hole course that could use its best land to make the best 9 holes of its property.  Routing is much different with 9 hole course.  18 hole courses are to be enjoyed and endured :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:59:03 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2016, 07:13:22 AM »
Dunes Club has so many sets of tees, especially on the two par-three holes, that it can play as an 18-hole course. I believe that its omission is unwarranted.


If nine-hole courses are meant to be enjoyed, are 18-hole courses meant to be endured?


You are entitled to your opinion and we have had this discussion.  it isn't fair to an 18 hole course that could use its best land to make the best 9 holes of its property.  Routing is much different with 9 hole course.  18 hole courses are to be enjoyed and endured :)


This is a narrow view of a golf course....and routings are very different no matter how many holes...that is the nature and wonder of golf design.  If a course is better its better....that decision is for each individual to determine for themselves rather than a blanket claim of unfairness (huh?) being layed down.  It could well be this bias against 9 holers in terms of not being a proper addition to best of lists is the very reason we don't have as many as we need. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2016, 07:20:00 AM »
Dunes Club has so many sets of tees, especially on the two par-three holes, that it can play as an 18-hole course. I believe that its omission is unwarranted.


If nine-hole courses are meant to be enjoyed, are 18-hole courses meant to be endured?


You are entitled to your opinion and we have had this discussion.  it isn't fair to an 18 hole course that could use its best land to make the best 9 holes of its property.  Routing is much different with 9 hole course.  18 hole courses are to be enjoyed and endured :)


This is a narrow view of a golf course....and routings are very different no matter how many holes...that is the nature and wonder of golf design.  If a course is better its better....that decision is for each individual to determine for themselves rather than a blanket claim of unfairness (huh?) being layed down.  It could well be this bias against 9 holers in terms of not being a proper addition to best of lists is the very reason we don't have as many as we need. 


Ciao


Complete bullocks.  apples to oranges.  people building 9 holers has nothing to do with lists.  The market dictates how many holes are to be built.  Real simple.  To call my outlook narrow-minded is hilarious.  It's one of common sense not in bodied in emotion. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:59:30 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 07:23:19 AM »
Dunes Club has so many sets of tees, especially on the two par-three holes, that it can play as an 18-hole course. I believe that its omission is unwarranted.


If nine-hole courses are meant to be enjoyed, are 18-hole courses meant to be endured?


You are entitled to your opinion and we have had this discussion.  it isn't fair to an 18 hole course that could use its best land to make the best 9 holes of its property.  Routing is much different with 9 hole course.  18 hole courses are to be enjoyed and endured :)


This is a narrow view of a golf course....and routings are very different no matter how many holes...that is the nature and wonder of golf design.  If a course is better its better....that decision is for each individual to determine for themselves rather than a blanket claim of unfairness (huh?) being layed down.  It could well be this bias against 9 holers in terms of not being a proper addition to best of lists is the very reason we don't have as many as we need. 


Ciao


Complete bullocks.  apples to oranges.  people building 9 holers has nothing to do with lists.  The market dicrates how many holes are to be built.  Real simple.  To call my outlook narrow-minded is hilarious.  It's one of common sense not in bodied in emotion.

 ::)

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 07:24:27 AM »
 :-*
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:59:46 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2016, 10:03:16 AM »
Arcadia Bluffs - 10th?  Really?

When I talk to regular golfers that don't dwell in the minutiae of golf course design (that all of us enjoy), it is commonly their favorite course in Michigan.  I may disagree with them, but this is a very common response.

To those that contributed, why did you rank Arcadia Bluffs so much lower than every magazine and the general golfing public?

Personally, I would not have it #1, but I find it difficult to find a way outside the top 5.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2016, 10:32:46 AM »
How many people on the panel are members of the clubs rated? Personally I am disappointed in my perception of the freefall Kingsley seems to projecting from the hearts of GCAers.

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2016, 10:55:05 AM »
Arcadia Bluffs - 10th?  Really?

When I talk to regular golfers that don't dwell in the minutiae of golf course design (that all of us enjoy), it is commonly their favorite course in Michigan.  I may disagree with them, but this is a very common response.

To those that contributed, why did you rank Arcadia Bluffs so much lower than every magazine and the general golfing public?

Personally, I would not have it #1, but I find it difficult to find a way outside the top 5.


I have not played Arcadia Bluffs but many of my friends who have love the course. However, that does not make it a great course in the eyes of those interested in GCA as you note. The truth is that Michigan has dozens of excellent courses including some top notch private tracks so there is a lot of competition. Remove the private courses and I'd guess it ranks far higher.

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2016, 11:22:45 AM »
How many people on the panel are members of the clubs rated? Personally I am disappointed in my perception of the freefall Kingsley seems to projecting from the hearts of GCAers.

I will let Ben answer your first question. Kingsley had the highest standard deviation and would have benefited the most if we dropped lowest/highest score.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 11:27:19 AM by Ryan Taylor »
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2016, 11:37:56 AM »
How many people on the panel are members of the clubs rated? Personally I am disappointed in my perception of the freefall Kingsley seems to projecting from the hearts of GCAers.


Of the top 25, only 2 courses have members that rated of the 16 people.  3 folks that are private members didnt make the top 25.  The 2 tended to rank their courses very conservatively.  Most non members ranked generously.  You can't throw out outliers until Greywalls and others have more plays.  Jkava, I had Kingsley at 3.  Plus one aspect ur overlooking is many Detroit privates were destroyed in the 80s by well meaning archies and have since been restored to greatness. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 03:01:41 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2016, 11:49:12 AM »
To those that contributed, why did you rank Arcadia Bluffs so much lower than every magazine and the general golfing public?

The general golfing public doesn't rank Arcadia #1, #2 or even #3 (in most cases) in the state. See Golfweek rankings. I ranked courses like Battle Creek CC and Bloomfield Hills CC above Arcadia Bluffs for the simple fact that I enjoy the architecture at these courses better. Arcadia Bluffs is man made, repetitive, soft, difficult, impossible to walk, everything that is wrong with the game of golf in the US, expensive and has very little quirk. My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the group.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2016, 08:19:03 PM »
To those that contributed, why did you rank Arcadia Bluffs so much lower than every magazine and the general golfing public?

Arcadia Bluffs is man made


How were the other courses made?

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2016, 08:46:00 PM »
Less man and more nature. But seriously, how much dirt was moved to create the "dunes" on 10 and 11??
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2016, 08:52:30 PM »
5. Orchard Lake 7.86 (13 votes)- Is the album that you'd never heard, but is instantly your new favorite album.


Great description, and having just recently played Orchard Lake, I wholeheartedly agree. Incredibly fun course to play, and utterly gorgeous. Another stellar Keith Foster restoration. Loved it.


















































Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2016, 08:53:36 PM »
Probably a lot, however that does not bother me in the least.  AB was not soft at all in when I played it.  This will not give me GCA street cred,  but I liked the course and hope to get back for another round soon.  Carry on. 

BCowan

Re: Michigan Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List New
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 08:57:54 PM »
In regards to Arcadia, haven't played it but it moved up 2 spots from last year and is ranked 10th in the state.  Hardly a non solid ranking.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 03:03:53 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2016, 09:05:47 PM »
Thanks Ben.  I appreciate the effort put into this list as I am learning about courses I had never heard of (Plum Hollow) and courses I know little about (Grosse Ile, Muskegon, etc).

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Michigan GCA Top 25 Rankings & Reviews (2016) List
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2016, 09:46:00 PM »
Stellar pics of OLCC Jon!

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back