[Jay Mickle]

Gil Hanse to redo Pinehurst #4
http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/gil-hanse-pinehurst-no-4-16146.htm

and a chance for Kyle Franz "the Maestro of Mid Pines" to get creative.
Congratulations all.

[hhuffines]

Jay, thanks so much for sharing this awesome news!  I'm not sure what happens to courses 3 and 5 but I'm sure they will work it out.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Interesting news. I wonder how much ross he's going to try to restore, it sounds like its going to be a complete redesign. As I was reading the article I was wondering if they might make some plans to restore no.3 back to its original routing. While the work around the opening holes on no.5 & no.3 won't disrupt the original routing, my guess is this will stop the potential of that work. I do very much wonder where they're going to find the space to add a hole to both courses.

[Andrew Buck]

Really awesome news. 

[Craig Disher]

Interesting news. I wonder how much ross he's going to try to restore, it sounds like its going to be a complete redesign. As I was reading the article I was wondering if they might make some plans to restore no.3 back to its original routing. While the work around the opening holes on no.5 & no.3 won't disrupt the original routing, my guess is this will stop the potential of that work. I do very much wonder where they're going to find the space to add a hole to both courses.

Regarding 3 and 5, most of the original #3 holes remain with the exception of 1, 5, and 7. With all the houses surrounding the course I don't think it's possible to recreate the same feeling that exists on #2. #4 certainly has that potential even though a large lake added by RTJ disrupts the original routing.

[Greg Holland]

Interesting.  Here is Pinehurst's news release:

http://www.pinehurst.com/news/

[Tom Bacsanyi]

The only thing I remember about No. 4 was that it was the one with the million little pot bunkers littered everywhere.  Such a strange course and very out of character for Fazio. Does he have any other courses with this pot bunker style or was it a one off?  Anyway, glad it's getting renovated and Hanse is involved.

[Andrew Buck]

Interesting.  Here is Pinehurst's news release:

http://www.pinehurst.com/news/

So it sounds like they're adding two par 3's to #3, hard to find the room, but I'm sure they have ideas. 

Really cool that #1 will undergo restoration as well. 

[PCCraig]

Pinehurst is just now realizing that the only course worth playing "on property" is No. 2.


Great to hear that they plan to also renovate/restore #1 and #3.


Moving the putting course closer to the clubhouse, and bar, is a great idea. The bar and porch there next to the 18th green on No. 2 is just an awesome setting.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Regarding 3 and 5, most of the original #3 holes remain with the exception of 1, 5, and 7. With all the houses surrounding the course I don't think it's possible to recreate the same feeling that exists on #2. #4 certainly has that potential even though a large lake added by Fazio disrupts the original routing.

7 would really be the only hole that couldn't be restored accurately. Even then, I'd imagine a good facsimile could be created to fit in with the other 17.

Interesting.  Here is Pinehurst's news release:

http://www.pinehurst.com/news/

So it sounds like they're adding two par 3's to #3, hard to find the room, but I'm sure they have ideas. 

Really cool that #1 will undergo restoration as well. 

If this is the case, It sounds like the current 3rd would become the 1st hole. My guess is one of the par threes will be build between the current 12th and 13th, shortening the 13th to a par 4. Another possibility would be to build one between the current 9th and 10th, once again reducing a par 5 to a par 4 and unfortunately packing 3 par 3's into a 4 hole run. This would also suggest the current 2nd on the no.3 course will be flipped and become the new 1st on the no.5 course, indirectly returning the hole to how it was originally when it was the opening hole on the original no.3 course.

[Terry Lavin]

Pinehurst is great, even if #2 is too difficult for mere mortals.  Nothing wrong with being humbled by #2 when there's plenty of other great golf at the resort.  I'm particularly happy to hear that some attention is being paid to #1, which I really enjoy playing.  It's like the ultimate classic course played from verrrrry forward tees.  Lots of fun.

[Tim Fitz]

The only thing I remember about No. 4 was that it was the one with the million little pot bunkers littered everywhere.  Such a strange course and very out of character for Fazio. Does he have any other courses with this pot bunker style or was it a one off?

Here in Chicago, Conway Farms has a few Fazio pot bunkers.  While fun to play, and with a great golfing focused membership, Fazio seemed a bit scatterbrained in the design.  The course is largely a prairie style course - lots of native grass separating holes.  In addition, there are a handful of parkland/woodland holes, at least one hole with pot bunkers and a large grass bunker, and an 18th hole that looks incredibly manufactured with a creek crossing the fairway twice and a few small stone walls.

It doesn't get a lot of love here on GCA, but it is worth seeing if you have plenty of rounds to fill in the Chicago area.

[Craig Disher]

If this is the case, It sounds like the current 3rd would become the 1st hole. My guess is one of the par threes will be build between the current 12th and 13th, shortening the 13th to a par 4. Another possibility would be to build one between the current 9th and 10th, once again reducing a par 5 to a par 4 and unfortunately packing 3 par 3's into a 4 hole run. This would also suggest the current 2nd on the no.3 course will be flipped and become the new 1st on the no.5 course, indirectly returning the hole to how it was originally when it was the opening hole on the original no.3 course.

That's the only option. I think using the 3rd as the first is unfortunate - no fun teeing off into condo canyon. At least the current first has somewhat of a Pinehurst feel. But using a flipped second would allow a fairly accurate restoration of the original first on course #3. The original green location and bunker mounds are still visible. The new #5 could have as its first 4 holes Ross's original first 4 on #3.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Having some skin in the game I'm happy to see work to improve the courses, the pieces of Pinehurst that really matter (wasn't really excited about the new pool and gym).  Most resort guests aren't playing #3 or #5 and I would be surprised if cannibalizing #3 upsets a many local members.  With an aging membership I'd guess a number of locals will be excited to have an even shorter option.


It will be interesting to see the plans.  The thing I am hesitant about is the short course.  I'm assuming the current short game practice area will go away.  They mentioned moving Thistle Dhu closer to the clubhouse but can't imagine the little piece of land being used for the short course.  Also figure the large flat putting green where putter boy is wil stay.  Are they going to relocate the croquet courts?  There are regular requests to improve the perimeter of the courts and facilities among the croquet players.


The overall land near the clubhouse isn't the greatest piece of land.  I know Hanse does good work with rather pedestrian pieces of property but I worry the short course will be more like Peter Hay at Pebble than the Preserve at Bandon.


It's also a pretty clear affirmation the land out by the Pitt is going to sit for quite some time.

[Jason Way]

The Golf Advisor article in the original post above has been updated to include the Golf Channel interview with Gil re: his intentions for both #4 and the short course. 


Everything about his description sounds right on the money to me. 

[Ronald Montesano]

I think that this is validation that living guys carry more weight than old dead guys, with an element of the traveling golfer. No matter how good a Ross might be, the destinations in North America with which Pinehurst must compete (Streamsong, Bandon, Cabot, Sand Valley) are all fresh, with justifiably-trendy architects on the roll call. Although the deuce is still Ross, it is seasoned with Coore-Crenshaw. This trusting of the reconfiguration of a course to a living architect is a large, next step.

[Dean DiBerardino]

Interesting news. I wonder how much ross he's going to try to restore, it sounds like its going to be a complete redesign. As I was reading the article I was wondering if they might make some plans to restore no.3 back to its original routing. While the work around the opening holes on no.5 & no.3 won't disrupt the original routing, my guess is this will stop the potential of that work. I do very much wonder where they're going to find the space to add a hole to both courses.

Restoring the original routing to No. 3 would require taking the following holes/corridors back from No. 5....2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 16, 17 & 18. Not sure how they could do that.

[Dean DiBerardino]

The "original" back nine of No. 3 consisted of the following holes in the current layout....


Current 3 was 10
Current 4 was 11
Current 5 was 12
Current 6 was 13
Current 7 was 14
Current 8 was 15
Current 14 was 16
Current 15 was 17
Current 18 was 18

[PThomas]

The only thing I remember about No. 4 was that it was the one with the million little pot bunkers littered everywhere.  Such a strange course and very out of character for Fazio. Does he have any other courses with this pot bunker style or was it a one off?

Here in Chicago, Conway Farms has a few Fazio pot bunkers.  While fun to play, and with a great golfing focused membership, Fazio seemed a bit scatterbrained in the design.  The course is largely a prairie style course - lots of native grass separating holes.  In addition, there are a handful of parkland/woodland holes, at least one hole with pot bunkers and a large grass bunker, and an 18th hole that looks incredibly manufactured with a creek crossing the fairway twice and a few small stone walls.

It doesn't get a lot of love here on GCA, but it is worth seeing if you have plenty of rounds to fill in the Chicago area.

those pot bunkers are so awful

[Ben Hollerbach]

Restoring the original routing to No. 3 would require taking the following holes/corridors back from No. 5....2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 16, 17 & 18. Not sure how they could do that.

I would propose they eliminate no. 5, or convert into an executive course for the neighborhood centered around the remaining ellis maples holes and the current no.3/no.5 halfway house.

[hhuffines]

Ben, I have to respectfully disagree there.  # 5 should be kept as an 18 hole course and improved over the years as they are doing with the others.  They need a relief course with sufficient length.

[Jay Mickle]

Ben, I have to respectfully disagree there.  # 5 should be kept as an 18 hole course and improved over the years as they are doing with the others.  They need a relief course with sufficient length.

How about 6 and 8? Special circumstances perhaps 7 and  9. Mid Pines , Pine Needles , Dormie, Tobacco Road, Southern Pines etc can handle the overflow.
If they find a need to keep it in house they have The Pit and a C&C plan.

[hhuffines]

I was thinking mainly of people who want to play out of the PCC clubhouse.  I assume the new #4 will be expensive like #2 and busy.

[Andrew Buck]

I'd assume #4 splits the difference of current and #2.  Essentially $200 surcharge for #2 and $100 surcharge for #4. 

[Joe_Tucholski]

I think that this is validation that living guys carry more weight than old dead guys, with an element of the traveling golfer. No matter how good a Ross might be, the destinations in North America with which Pinehurst must compete (Streamsong, Bandon, Cabot, Sand Valley) are all fresh, with justifiably-trendy architects on the roll call. Although the deuce is still Ross, it is seasoned with Coore-Crenshaw. This trusting of the reconfiguration of a course to a living architect is a large, next step.

And Pinehurst understands this since #4 was dramatically changed by RTJ and then Fazio.  Pinehurst stays current.  For better or worse (not sure which it is).

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