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Michael J. Moss

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Mike DeVries and Joe Hancock are knee deep in completing the last four holes at Sunningdale CC, wrapping up a project that lies somewhere between an aggressive renovation and a complete redesign. (…and btw, those semantic nuances are still being debated in some quarters!) But of the four holes, three are original designs, which means changes to the original routing, and have involved substantial tree clearing plus the added fun of dealing with unimaginable amounts of surface AND subsurface rock. Today I’d like to share some images that show the genesis of a new 155 yard par-3 17th hole, which is replacing what was, several iterations ago, a Raynor "Short.” (What happened to the original layout is a story for another day.) In the meantime, thanks to powerful bulldozers and excavators not available to the Golden Age masters, Mike has been able make the best use of the land available to him...and Sunningdale's Forefathers picked a beauty. And through extensive tree clearing, the vistas that have been afforded show off land that moves as dramatically as any in the Met area. The land is now the star at Sunningdale.

So I’ll begin with apologies. The photos are from my IPhone 6, which is no long state of the art. But here goes...

I mentioned tree clearing -- and I posted this before in another thread -- but this gives you an idea of how stubborn a tree stump can be. That's Joe down there.


surface rock


...and subsurface rock, which can have an impact on the visuals. In this exercise, Mike endeavored to lower this nugget to allow the golfer a better view of the putting surface. This comes under the heading: Mike sweating the details.


This is a the site of the proposed 16th green, but this, as Mike would say, is what
"Mother Earth" looks like (read: rock ledge). Need a chipper for this.


fast forward a bit...the ledge upon which Mike And Joe are perched will remain as a design element. Woe to those who give a little yank in pursuit of a front left pin.


fast forward some more: Mike on the sand pro...


partially grassed...


and golfer's view from the single free-form tee

opposite view...


...and that's all for now. Stay tuned!






« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:04:18 PM by Michael J. Moss »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Mike DeVries at Sunningdale Country Club (Scarsdale, NY)
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 06:02:53 PM »
Thank you, Michael.

My goodness, the sheer work involved in creating a golf hole (aside from the art, the craft and the engineering) is very striking, especially in these before and after photos.

And a lovely nod to the past by Mike and Joe in keeping and incorporating that chunk of Mother Earth. No wonder the golden agers created courses that look the way they do...Mother Earth kept getting in the way of their plans! 

corey miller

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Re: Mike DeVries at Sunningdale Country Club (Scarsdale, NY)
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 07:39:53 AM »

Congrats Michael.  I know it has been a long journey but know that the club is in good hands.  I look forward to seeing the work.

I appreciate the "honesty" in the description of the project. 

What sort of mandate was given to Mike D? Did that evolve over time as the club members became more comfortable with the work?


Michael J. Moss

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Re: Mike DeVries at Sunningdale Country Club (Scarsdale, NY) New
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 04:04:27 PM »
Thanks, Peter and Cory. It has been a long time in the making, but I think it’s going to be well worth the wait. I’m excited to hear what others have to say after playing a round or two next spring. One of the unintended but positive consequences of our lack of urgency to get it done quickly is that over time, Mike has only gained comfort and therefore the confidence to be bold…and it didn’t take him long! As I intimated above, this wasn’t a restoration, and to some architects, the temptation to design for a club’s current membership is the easiest path. But when I went out to see Mike’s work at Kingsley, as part of our Club’s due diligence, I concluded the chances of getting a namby-pamby result was a low probability. (…and this seems like one of the few times in my life that I can say I was right!)

But as to Mike’s original mandate for the golf course, I should briefly describe what the state of things were before his arrival. By the mid/late 1990s, pretty much all vestiges of Raynor, Travis and AWT were gone with most of the damage (probably) occurring during and possibly right after WWII. So when Mike first came to take a look around, he encountered a set of greens that had obviously lost contour and if I had to guess, had shrunk in size to perhaps 60 -70 percent of their original size. In addition, playing corridors (and vistas) were choked off by way too many trees. At the top of the thread, I talked about how good the property is, but back then the golf course was a very tired and a complete under-achiever.

So with little to no Golden Age architecture left, we put little to no constraints on Mike. Our message to him was here it is….assess the strengths and deficiencies in the routing, the same with the green complexes -- in essence the whole property -- but have at it and make the best use of this really cool land. The 1926 aerial revealed where the Raynor templates had been, and of interest, two of them, Biarritz and Alps/Punchbowl, had been removed many years ago as they were viewed as controversial…blindness, etc. Mike reinstated his own “tip of the cap” versions of each strategy where now the Alps green is only partially obscured, which is dependent upon from where in the fairway your second shot is played. In terms of square feet, this DeVries Biarritz green is the largest on the course (…although the 15th is pretty large too).  But it’s a good three/four club difference from front to back and doesn’t feature the intense trademark swale (although a baby one does exist). But the golfer is offered both the long aerial approach and a really fun bump along the ground option. And as to the putting surface, I’ve heard it described as containing no tap-ins…and that’s due to the belief by many that all putts, no matter from where they’re struck, run downhill!
 
But back to the original question of our mandate to Mike, and I’m not sure this was ever formally discussed, we had this general overarching desire to make our course look old again, as in when you’re done, it should reflect its Golden Age pedigree established 98 years ago! And when Mike buttons everything up later this fall, and people ask us whether we will have a Raynor/Travis/ Tillinghast course, I for one will be proud to tell them it’s a DeVries design!

« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:16:27 PM by Michael J. Moss »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Mike DeVries at Sunningdale Country Club (Scarsdale, NY)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2016, 09:13:50 PM »
Michael - I can't put words to all the reasons why, but I think that was a really excellent post. In a succinct and understandable way you painted a clear picture of the entire process and much of the dynamics involved in bringing an old golf course back to life. I don't know much about Sunningdale, have only played one of Mike D's courses, know Joe H  only as a friend, and have no clue about the world of private club politics -- but your post gave me a much better understanding of all of that (except for the reasons why I'm friends with Joe in the first place ...:) )

Thanks. I'm glad you'll be able to enjoy the revitalized Sunningdale for years to come! 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 09:22:41 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mike DeVries at Sunningdale Country Club (Scarsdale, NY) New
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 02:05:49 PM »
progress continues...

I'm not thrilled to lead off with this image -- you've got to squint a bit -- but Sunningdale's new 16th is in the process of growing from a 410 yard par-4 to a 590 yard par-5...and as I think I mentioned earlier, it will be a real rollercoaster. At the bottom of the image, the drone (thank you Brian Giordano!) shows us the stripped "old" 16th green and towards the top (in shadow at one o'clock) is the very recently sodded "new" 16th green. The image doesn't really describe how dramatically the land falls away beyond the service road. In addition, to set up their third shot, the golfer must navigate a small strip of wetlands running across the landing area. So a risk/reward decision must be addressed prior to the final assault to a green site that sits on top of a very cool ridge. Btw, I didn't mention that Mike and Joe are leaving 16 and 17 bunkerless. I guess they feel both contain an adequate amount of rugged appeal.

ready for sod, here the drone better shows the green site's elevation into a landform that Mike tied into with the 17th tee (on the left)

another image that provides a slightly different look that highlights the exposed ledge...pull-hooks may cause interesting ricochets!

close up...

a step backwards, but here looking from behind the green back up to (what will be) the entire fairway

a throw-in photo: our old water tower base with super moon! (this predates Mike's involvement!) It occupies the highest point of the property from which you can now see ten greens!


stay tuned!


« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:08:32 PM by Michael J. Moss »

Michael J. Moss

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Okay...two more!

For you GCA archeologists out there, I've got a good one here. In coring out this green, which was a Raynor par-3  "Eden," Mike found the following drainage solution...wire screen lying on top of gravel. Three of these were uncovered late last week. We can't know for sure if they dated back to Raynor, but still old!

next...a DeVries original, very recently photographed by Sunningdale's own Brian Giordano. Our 340 yard fifth hole, whose green appendages require both skill AND courage from the player to acquire. With all modesty in check, I think Sunningdale's 5th is one of the best short par-4s anywhere...especially when played from the members' tee at 290 yards. Temptation at war with the golfer's brain!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:16:06 PM by Michael J. Moss »

Joe Bausch

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« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 11:12:45 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

corey miller

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I was a lucky participant at the Sunningdale gathering/celebration.  A wonderful time was had by all.  What was most gratifying (as a person having been involved in a long restoration process and knowing the challenges)  was how enthused the membership seemed to be.  Obviously, the team (Michael M., David, my friend Jim Gold) knew what could be achieved by being relatively "hands-off" with Mike DeVries and Joe Hancock but this is the proof.  One of the finest places to play in the Met Area. 

The highest compliment I can offer to both Mike D. and Joe H. is that I would trust them implicitly (meaning with my own club :) )  to make any changes they thought necessary to bring any club back to it's roots, or in this case "better".  I never saw the "old" Sunningdale, it is evident in the aerial that it needed a consult,  but the new is truly  outstanding.  I hope the membership will continue to work with Mike and Joe.  it is a process, keep him on the team and "listen".

Sorry for the sermon, but I was intimately involved at Sleepy Hollow and know how hard these changes can be.  I have always thanked Ran for having a site that gave clubs the resources to better understand the architecture and how cool some of these not often seen courses are.  The key of course is to treat them individually (such as at Sunningdale) and highlight what is unique (neat rolling land that is fairly expansive utilizing two ridges).

I know Michael M has had a little fun with the wording of what has actually been done at Sunningdale.  I like to thing Mike DeVries "restored" classic playing concepts and design.

Everyone puts their own "value" on what a great set of greens are worth.  For me, it is ultra important and these are one of the finest, most fun to play, sets in the Met Area.  And since I believe Mike D and Joe had some artistic license I consider them "new" and very Maxwellian. A very high compliment and I would put them very near the top of any "modern" greens I have played. 

Just a great job..... 

Jeff_Mingay

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I've not visited Sunningdale, yet. But I've known Mike D. for 20 years. So, I'm not surprised how good his and Joe's work looks in those photos. Thanks for posting.


It seems Sunningdale Country Club has been elevated to the architectural level of some of its more famous neighbours.


Great stuff. 
jeffmingay.com

John Sabino

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Completely agree Michael with your assessment of the fifth hole. One of the great par fours I have played. I played it in last week's event where the pin is where you have it pictured. I pulled it long and had one heck of a flop shot to hit to the narrow part of that green. Too bad the shot didn't work out as I visualized it  ;)

Like the Knoll hole at Yale, the 10th at Riviera or the 1st at Merion, beware of short par fours!

Corey, you make excellent points also. I was struck by how fine the greens are. I especially like the seventh green on the top of the hill. I imagine that has more three putts than just about any other on the course.


It seems like with the changes DeVries is making Sunningale is emerging from the shadows of the other great courses in Westchester to get its due.
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Michael J. Moss

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Corey and Joe: Thanks so much for your input. Corey, the sermon is fair and we are in need of absolution for a history of straying! Henceforth, it is our intention to keep Mike on hand for many years to come. And in terms of any potential  changes to our golf course in the future, Mike has super-delegate status. We have learned our lesson...no more wearing the architect's hat.

Jeff Mingay, if you're ever  in the area, come on by!  I'm told you spent some quality time in Marquette at Greywalls.

now... some more progress on our par-three 3rd hole...

Mike on the sand pro

...and a slightly more finished product with Billy Bunker installed. Teeing areas are to the left of the road.

The adjacent 4th tee. On the left is the middle tee. Joe Hancock is in the dozer finishing off the forward tee. the 4th fairway is on the right. Back in the day, it was a MacRaynor Leven.

Not the best image, but this looks back on the entire land form that comprises the 3rd green and 4th tees. Mike has tied them together much more attractively. You can see the little (reintroduced) "Strath" pot bunker.


Mike Sweeney

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MM,


Can you comment on this aerial? It looks like the yellow holes are being built?


This looks like a fascinating story of old vs new. Thanks


"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Joe Bausch

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MS,

The holes being built and soon to be finished are 3, 16, 17, and 18.

In that figure of mine you reference, the 'yellow' holes are par 3s!

Joe
--------------------
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Michael J. Moss

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The drone is back online...16th green site with sod. Fairway being shaped out as we speak


MCirba

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Those photos look very compelling.    Congratulations to all involved.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

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Nice drone pics, Mike Moss!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Joe, the drone operator/photographer is our first assistant golf professional, Brian Giordano. He's getting really good!

Joe Bausch

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Joe, the drone operator/photographer is our first assistant golf professional, Brian Giordano. He's getting really good!


And I played in his group last week.  He's a fine player, too.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

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