News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
From the public view these two courses represent rather polar interpretations of how a golf course should be presented. Regardless of how the public may gravitate one way or another and trying to overcome some of the practices enjoyed by each course due to their very large working capital. If we were to replicate one of these courses general presentation but with a more modest budget which one would ultimately be the cheapest to construct and maintain?
For clarification, Features like Augusta's sub air system and their seasonal operational model with overseeing would not be specifically representative of their course presentation.

At face value it would appear that a Pinehurst-eque course with its lower water coverage and native areas off of the fairways would be a fairly economical approach, but I've also head there is a tremendous amount of man hours required to tend to those native areas. Managing the density of sand to scrub plant and controlling potential sand runoff from weather.

An Augusta National-like course, on the other hand, has a much larger area of watered and manicured grass, Which would suggest a higher cost in water and care. But being that the course is "virtually" all the same grass , the majority of it the grass is cut to the same height, and the course has a relatively small number of bunkers; do those factors help to reduce man hours dedicated to daily maintenance and reduce the overall cost?


Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kevin Robinson at Pinehurst told me the newly planted native areas cost almost twice as much to maintain vs. mown rough. Lots of labor and hand spraying, fixing washouts, that type of thing. I seem to remember him saying the maintenance leveled off around year 3, but was still probably equal to the cost of maintaining rough.

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
So what might be the most economically (cheapest) maintained US Top 100 golf course?  Fishers Island Club?
Who else?


Also, what lessons could be learned at other courses who must limit the amount they can budget to maintain a course while preserving some reasonable levels of quality?
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kevin Robinson at Pinehurst told me the newly planted native areas cost almost twice as much to maintain vs. mown rough. Lots of labor and hand spraying, fixing washouts, that type of thing. I seem to remember him saying the maintenance leveled off around year 3, but was still probably equal to the cost of maintaining rough.
Interesting Blake. I wonder what lead to the level off of the maintenance demand. Had the staff become more efficient at maintaining the areas, were the able to do more preemptive maintenance to hold off weather damage/growth season, etc...?
Whats the cost of rough maintenance vs. fairway?

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
After looking at the list, I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t much separation from the lowest to the highest to maintain. The over-seeded courses would probably rank pretty high on the list. The real comparison is to take the UK top 100 and add up all their budgets and compare it with the USA top 100 budgets.  It would be astounding I’m sure. Green is king here regardless if it’s at the cost of valuable resources.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is The Loop significantly cheaper to maintain than Forrest Dunes?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pinehurst lost me when the starter told us to play everything as a waste bunker through the green. Watching dudes take practice swings in green side bunkers left me speechless.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've heard for years from supers from as diverse locations as TOC, PV, and others that mowing turf is the least expensive thing you can do.  With robot mowers, I expect that to increase.


Also, edges are important as they take more care to mow (or rake)  Clean edges are usually less expensive than craggy ones unless you are really willing to let those go wild, and many clubs aren't.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 ;D


How about Newport CC  ...where Tiger beat Marucci in the US Am so long ago. I'm guessing it was one of the coolest places for me on TV. Just never been there.  Bet they had one of the lowest maintenance budgets ever
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 07:42:09 PM by archie_struthers »

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've heard for years from supers from as diverse locations as TOC, PV, and others that mowing turf is the least expensive thing you can do.  With robot mowers, I expect that to increase.


Also, edges are important as they take more care to mow (or rake)  Clean edges are usually less expensive than craggy ones unless you are really willing to let those go wild, and many clubs aren't.
Combine that info with Blake's comments about Pinehurst and it would sound like a course that is wall to wall turf and very few bunkers would be the cheapest to maintain.
I'd imagine the flip side of the coin is the irrigation and fertilizer cost for all of the turf.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
So what might be the most economically (cheapest) maintained US Top 100 golf course?  Fishers Island Club?
Who else?


Ballyneal

Cal Carlisle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Creeks (especially ones with grass running to the water's edge) are a ton of fun to maintain. Fly mowing creek banks, washed out banks after storms, silt getting belched onto fairways during really bad storms. Natural can cost money.


I worked at another course that nutted up and took the stone walled burn approach. Much cheaper to maintain, but expensive as hell to build. I don't know what the cost was, but I don't recall storm cleanup ever really being a "thing".

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
At the end of the day it’s about expectations. As long as they are astronomical and every course chases lists or desires to emulate Tour courses budgets will be high regardless of the course.
I’d bet the Eisenhower Course in MD (no bunkers) would be very low.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
At the end of the day it’s about expectations. As long as they are astronomical and every course chases lists or desires to emulate Tour courses budgets will be high regardless of the course.
I’d bet the Eisenhower Course in MD (no bunkers) would be very low.


Pinehurst was relatively expensive with loads more grass. Its a vicious circle. Expectations are driven by price and rep then golfers expect better playing conditions and the cycle continues until something breaks.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think that you'd be very surprised at the maintenance budgets of many top end courses in Florida our "in season" time (Nov-April) where presentation is key along with trying to fulfill member expectations-Mowing all shortcut 3-4x a week, greens are mowed & rolled daily, bunkers raked daily.....but in many cases, we spend MORE in the summer months completing cultural practices to prepare for the winter months.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 06:17:52 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL