Tree into the center of fairways

[Rob Marshall]

Could someone please explain to me why anyone would design a hole with a huge tree in the middle of the fairway? Your tee shot on ANY part of the fairway leaves you on an upslope hitting a shot that you need to keep under the tree with about 245 to the green. It's a 490 yard par 5. Donald Ross course. Im thinking it must have been a dogleg at some point so you could play around the tree.

[David_Tepper]

Rob -

I can't explain it. But the 12th hole at Stanford U. golf course (the "signature hole" ) is famous for the 2 trees in the center of the fairway.

https://golfcourse.stanford.edu/AerialNewhole12.htm

DT

[Jason Thurman]

Could someone please explain to me why anyone would design a hole with a huge tree in the middle of the fairway?

Art Hills can.

[Joe Sponcia]

Nicklaus has a couple of them on Pawleys plantation like this.  Not a fan. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Rob,

Maybe the tree was smaller when the course was built. Maybe the hole was as you say a dogleg. Maybe the tees were much closer to the tree originally than they are today. Or maybe it was a par five where you are not expected to reach the green in two shots so the tree is just one of the best hazards that an architect could use.


Jon

[Randy Thompson]

I have two in the same course in Panama and worst yet,  starting holes one and ten and about 260 from the back tees. They are are about 100 years old and with 30-40 meters crowns. The owner insisted they stay. I wouldn`t ever design a hole and incorporate such trees but in these circumstances I can live with it as should golfers. You can put a bunker anywhere and justify it by saying, there are ways to play around it, alternativitives, deal with it! What makes leaving a tree with some kind of sentimental value any different?

[Tom_Doak]

I have two in the same course in Panama and worst yet,  starting holes one and ten and about 260 from the back tees. They are are about 100 years old and with 30-40 meters crowns. The owner insisted they stay. I wouldn`t ever design a hole and incorporate such trees but in these circumstances I can live with it as should golfers. You can put a bunker anywhere and justify it by saying, there are ways to play around it, alternativitives, deal with it! What makes leaving a tree with some kind of sentimental value any different?

I get why you had to leave the trees, but why keep the fairway where you had it?  Why not shift it around to one side, as you are asking the golfers to shift their shots?

[Rob Marshall]

Rob,

Maybe the tree was smaller when the course was built. Maybe the hole was as you say a dogleg. Maybe the tees were much closer to the tree originally than they are today. Or maybe it was a par five where you are not expected to reach the green in two shots so the tree is just one of the best hazards that an architect could use.


Jon

Jon, at one time the hole was about 20 yards shorter but I believe it was always a par 5.  It's a little hard to describe but there is no area to layup too. Severe side hill lie that rules into the rough and a very difficult green. I found an old drawing on a Donald Ross site but it just showed the routing but no detail that includes the tree. Perhaps Tom Doak walked the course when he went thru the Rochester area. 7th hole at Irondequoit CC.

[Randy Thompson]

I have two in the same course in Panama and worst yet,  starting holes one and ten and about 260 from the back tees. They are are about 100 years old and with 30-40 meters crowns. The owner insisted they stay. I wouldn`t ever design a hole and incorporate such trees but in these circumstances I can live with it as should golfers. You can put a bunker anywhere and justify it by saying, there are ways to play around it, alternativitives, deal with it! What makes leaving a tree with some kind of sentimental value any different?

I get why you had to leave the trees, but why keep the fairway where you had it?  Why not shift it around to one side, as you are asking the golfers to shift their shots?

There was no room to do that. The owner had an agreement with the state, that if he built 800 rooms and X amount of villa and townhouse around a nine hole golf course they would give him an additional 100 ha for a second nine and housing lots around the second nine. When I entered they already had 600 rooms and they left space to the right of the entrance for the first hole. I particpated on the rest of the routing and the áreas for condos and villas. The front nine is short and there were few alternatives to consider because of haivng to complete with X amount of housing. The second nine is about four hundred yards more and the golf took the lead and I incorporated the lots after. In the tenth hole, i was able to off set it as you suggested but I could of done more and would like to do something different, now.
Here is the first.
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[cary lichtenstein]

Cool looking from the tee, dumb architecture

[David_Tepper]

The par-5 18th hole at Diablo CC (Danville, CA) has a tree in the middle of the 18th fairway. The course design is attributed to Jack Neville & William Watson.

[Adam Warren]

There are 4 trees in the middle of the fairway at one of my home courses around here.  I have mixed feelings about it.  From a stroke play perspective, it is what it is.  It makes for an interesting finishing hole for tight matches or match play events though.  Lots of things can happen on the hole.  Hit the trees, left in the creek, pond fronting a green with a lot of slope.  It's not a particularly long hole, but things can happen on that hole which make for an interesting finish.  It's an old 1960's Buck Blankenship on old farm land, so I'm sure these trees were not much of a factor then, but the trees are sizeable and can come into play, but its not architecturally strong.

[MClutterbuck]

Rob -

I can't explain it. But the 12th hole at Stanford U. golf course (the "signature hole" ) is famous for the 2 trees in the center of the fairway.

https://golfcourse.stanford.edu/AerialNewhole12.htm

DT

The worst hole at Stanford and what is otherwise a great course. I hated it every time I played it. Incredible that the hole description states that top players drove it into the left rough on purpose to get a better angle!

[Pete_Pittock]

Santa Maria (Santa Maria, CA - Ken Killian) 6th hole is a medium/short par 4 dogleg, with a pine(?) tree in the middle of the fairway about 75 yds short of green center. Didn't like it, as it hurts bogey golfers much more than the scratchers.

The most recent Golf Digest has Nicklaus saying that whenever they leave a tree in such position, his long range intention is to replace it with a bunker after the tree dies.

[Wade Whitehead]

16 at Harbour Town has one, if I remember correctly.

WW

[Terry Lavin]

16 at Harbour Town has one, if I remember correctly.

WW

Wade,

Harbour Town has a tree in the middle of the pro shop. 😅

[Duncan Cheslett]

The 4th hole at Ladbrook Park has a large oak slap bang in front of the green. There is slightly more space to the right and this appears to be the route favoured by locals.


Typically, I went left and had no real option but to try and fly the tree with a wedge. Happily it came off and I had a makeable birdie putt; as a consequence  I rather liked the hole. My playing partner wasn't quite so enamoured! 


http://www.ladbrookparkgolf.co.uk/course/holes/4/




It's a fun bit of quirk but I think one would soon tire of such features.

[Jon Wiggett]

If I remember correctly, the last hole at Middlesbourgh which was a par 3 used to play over a copse of trees to a green with the clubhouse just a few feet off the back of the green. (It was a blind shot) I believe the course has now been altered.


Of course the hole which I am most familiar with that has a tree in the middle of the fairway is the 17th at Dewsbury where I used to be a member. Plenty of room to get around the tree as well as under it when playing to the sunken green.


Jon