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Thomas Dai

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Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« on: October 08, 2016, 02:28:19 PM »
The threads title says it all really....."Why is there so little love for Pyle and Kenfigs 1st 9-holes?"


It's got lots of things we posting herein often like -


It's by Harry Colt (unlike to back-9 which the MoD took over and MacKenzie Ross later brought back to life)
The green complexes and surrounds are interesting with good internal movement
The bunkering is very fine (ie it's best to avoid going in the bunkers)
The site is sandy and free draining and although there's gorse etc about there are no trees
There is elevation change (it's a domed not flat site)
The overall card yardage is strong
There are nice views out to sea etc (and few of the steelworks at Port Talbot!)


What's not to like?


If it were only a 9-hole course would it be more highly regarded?


If all 18-holes at P&K were of the standard of the the front-9 where would it stand in relation to other Welsh courses?.........above or below the likes of Southerndown, Clyne, Ashburnham, Tenby, Borth, Aberdovey, Conwy, Bull Bay etc ......note I've not mentioned RPGC or RStDGC or a certain course on the Gower starting with a 'P'.


So why so little love for the front-9 at P&K?


Atb


« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 04:28:29 PM by Thomas Dai »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 04:37:36 AM »
From comments over the years I was under the impression that there wasn't much love for P&K's front-9. Guess my impression is inaccurate.
Atb



Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 05:14:00 AM »
ATB


P&Ks front nine is good without being in any way outstanding.  If I recall, the short 6th is the standout hole. Perhaps the larger issue is the perceived quality discrepancy between the front and back nines.  I actually don't think there is a big difference in quality because the front is better than most think and the back is not nearly as good as reputation suggests.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2021, 07:46:47 AM »
I can't recall being so disappointed by a supposedly top rate course than I was with Pyle & Kenfig. There wasn't much about it that I could love, save for the admittedly excellent 14th hole and decent par 3 15th.


I was well aware of the supposed discrepancy in quality between the front and back nines and actually found 1-9 better than anticipated. It was the back nine which was the let down. The 10th is just an awful hole, flanked by ugly ditches climbing gently up a wet field. Things get better from 11-15, but the impressive dunes are ruined through being shrouded in a dense cloak of bracken. This invasive weed strangles the attraction of this land and at this time of year, when it is on the turn, it becomes a depressing brown fog of ferns. Probably looks a whole lot better in the spring, before it has taken hold. 16-17 return to the inland nature and are both strong holes, but not especially attractive. 18 reprises the 10th in reverse.


The club itself is warm and friendly and couldn't have done more for our group. It's just a shame that the course doesn't live up to their hospitality.


To end on a positive, the best part of the course comes when you stand on the high 14th tee, taking in the view over 1,300 acres of the most remarkable duneland. Enough space in there for 4 or 5 spacious 18-holers, but not likely golf will ever get a go in there. As our very own Ben Stephens has postulated, if P&K could ever move entirely over the road and extend into this duneland it could easily develop a course worthy of Wales first major championship venue. Porthcawl has aspirations in this regard and is only one land purchase away from being in the game, but P&K would have the better course if it were ever possible to get into the Kenfig dunes.


I heard talk that a clearing out of the bracken on the dunes was on the cards and I hope this is true. You don't need to guess too hard to figure out which design company has been engaged to engineer sand scrapes in the dunes...



2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2021, 08:21:29 AM »
The threads title says it all really....."Why is there so little love for Pyle and Kenfigs 1st 9-holes?"


It's got lots of things we posting herein often like -


It's by Harry Colt (unlike to back-9 which the MoD took over and MacKenzie Ross later brought back to life)
The green complexes and surrounds are interesting with good internal movement
The bunkering is very fine (ie it's best to avoid going in the bunkers)
The site is sandy and free draining and although there's gorse etc about there are no trees
There is elevation change (it's a domed not flat site)
The overall card yardage is strong
There are nice views out to sea etc (and few of the steelworks at Port Talbot!)


What's not to like?


If it were only a 9-hole course would it be more highly regarded?


If all 18-holes at P&K were of the standard of the the front-9 where would it stand in relation to other Welsh courses?.........above or below the likes of Southerndown, Clyne, Ashburnham, Tenby, Borth, Aberdovey, Conwy, Bull Bay etc ......note I've not mentioned RPGC or RStDGC or a certain course on the Gower starting with a 'P'.


So why so little love for the front-9 at P&K?


Atb


Interesting.
I didn't realize there was no love.
I played it in the winter, thinking it might be my assignement for Sr. Open qualifying(before you could pick)
I enjoyed it, though I don't remember a whole lot as I was covering a lot of ground.
I had played Tenby with Sean and co. that morning.
I remember putting it somewhere in the range of Southerndown(which I now like a lot), or Ashburnham.
To be fair, I think I noticed the back a bit more, but wasn't unhappy with the front.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2021, 09:54:17 AM »
Interesting.
I didn't realize there was no love.
I played it in the winter, thinking it might be my assignement for Sr. Open qualifying(before you could pick)
I enjoyed it, though I don't remember a whole lot as I was covering a lot of ground.
I had played Tenby with Sean and co. that morning.
I remember putting it somewhere in the range of Southerndown(which I now like a lot), or Ashburnham.
To be fair, I think I noticed the back a bit more, but wasn't unhappy with the front.
I play P&K most years and over time the front-9 has grown on me. Indeed I look forward to playing the front-9. The bunkering and the gathering areas for the bunkers are best avoided, there’s plenty of gorse, which I’m a fan of even if others aren’t, and both can cause awkwardness particularly when the ground gets very dry and firm, and the putting surfaces are sneaky. Indeed if the front-9 itself was a self contained 9-hole course/Club I’d be happy to play it as my home course if I lived locally.
Robins point about the 10th is valid. The 11th to the 17th though is very strong test of golf and scoring for all but low handicappers and when the wind is up can be brutal.
The back-9 has seen quite a bit of scrub/brush removal around the 14th in particular. This hasn’t just been golf related though but was undertaken in conjunction with the local nature bodies as concern had developed regarding excessive scrub/brush growth and its effect on the general sand dune environment. I thought I’d posted some photos herein of this opening-up a while back but couldn’t find them via the search engine. I’ll try to find and re-post them.
As to the mention of Southerndown, I was there a couple of weeks ago and it was as splendid as ever although they to had been undertaking some vegetation removal, in their case of gorse.
Atb

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 02:50:43 AM »
The threads title says it all really....."Why is there so little love for Pyle and Kenfigs 1st 9-holes?"


It's got lots of things we posting herein often like -


It's by Harry Colt (unlike to back-9 which the MoD took over and MacKenzie Ross later brought back to life)
The green complexes and surrounds are interesting with good internal movement
The bunkering is very fine (ie it's best to avoid going in the bunkers)
The site is sandy and free draining and although there's gorse etc about there are no trees
There is elevation change (it's a domed not flat site)
The overall card yardage is strong
There are nice views out to sea etc (and few of the steelworks at Port Talbot!)


What's not to like?


If it were only a 9-hole course would it be more highly regarded?


If all 18-holes at P&K were of the standard of the the front-9 where would it stand in relation to other Welsh courses?.........above or below the likes of Southerndown, Clyne, Ashburnham, Tenby, Borth, Aberdovey, Conwy, Bull Bay etc ......note I've not mentioned RPGC or RStDGC or a certain course on the Gower starting with a 'P'.


So why so little love for the front-9 at P&K?


Atb


Interesting.
I didn't realize there was no love.
I played it in the winter, thinking it might be my assignement for Sr. Open qualifying(before you could pick)
I enjoyed it, though I don't remember a whole lot as I was covering a lot of ground.
I had played Tenby with Sean and co. that morning.
I remember putting it somewhere in the range of Southerndown(which I now like a lot), or Ashburnham.
To be fair, I think I noticed the back a bit more, but wasn't unhappy with the front.


Love? Well no, I don't have any love for P&K. It's a good course, but not one which inspires me to pay the greenfee again. I think of it as a missed opportunity.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is there so little love for Pyle & Kenfig's 1st 9-holes?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 11:35:42 AM »
I can't recall being so disappointed by a supposedly top rate course than I was with Pyle & Kenfig. There wasn't much about it that I could love, save for the admittedly excellent 14th hole and decent par 3 15th.


I was well aware of the supposed discrepancy in quality between the front and back nines and actually found 1-9 better than anticipated. It was the back nine which was the let down. The 10th is just an awful hole, flanked by ugly ditches climbing gently up a wet field. Things get better from 11-15, but the impressive dunes are ruined through being shrouded in a dense cloak of bracken. This invasive weed strangles the attraction of this land and at this time of year, when it is on the turn, it becomes a depressing brown fog of ferns. Probably looks a whole lot better in the spring, before it has taken hold. 16-17 return to the inland nature and are both strong holes, but not especially attractive. 18 reprises the 10th in reverse.


The club itself is warm and friendly and couldn't have done more for our group. It's just a shame that the course doesn't live up to their hospitality.


To end on a positive, the best part of the course comes when you stand on the high 14th tee, taking in the view over 1,300 acres of the most remarkable duneland. Enough space in there for 4 or 5 spacious 18-holers, but not likely golf will ever get a go in there. As our very own Ben Stephens has postulated, if P&K could ever move entirely over the road and extend into this duneland it could easily develop a course worthy of Wales first major championship venue. Porthcawl has aspirations in this regard and is only one land purchase away from being in the game, but P&K would have the better course if it were ever possible to get into the Kenfig dunes.


I heard talk that a clearing out of the bracken on the dunes was on the cards and I hope this is true. You don't need to guess too hard to figure out which design company has been engaged to engineer sand scrapes in the dunes...




I was in the same group of golfers as Robin that played P&K last week - i totally agree with Doc and I feel as a golf course it has gone backwards to the last time I had played it the plastic grid paths were ridiculous and slippy in areas it dumbed down the course in one aspect.


Not played it for 12 years as I put a post up then -


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40020.msg840195.html#msg840195


We had played Porthcawl the previous day and it was in absolutely stunning condition that only RCD is in the same bracket it was all grass no artificial materials even the wide grass paths were immaculate.


Robin and I played Southerndown 2 days before Porthcawl it was a delight to play after the first hole which felt like a mountain. The views were stunning.


Going back to P&K front nine it felt too open and there was lack of framing of the holes plus some bunkers were filled in and rough too friendly. Colt's greens were subtle in slope and shape compared to his other courses or had they been neutered over time?


Its one of the most friendliest clubs I have been to in Wales and they deserve better.




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