Match II: CLEEVE CLOUD V ROYAL ASHDOWN FOREST V KINGTON

[Sean_A]

Well, I really enjoyed the CC V Painswick V Minch Old thread.  So I thought it time to take the Cotswold Champ and tee it up against my personal favourite and a favourite of many in the know GCAers.  In some ways, Cleeve Cloud and RAF are quite similar in that they plow up and down hills...though RAF famously has no bunkers.  Kington is far more measured in its approach to the hill with climbing coming early and the descending late.  However, in some ways Kington and RAF are similar in that unusual shaping is often employed, however RAF is much more reliant on forced carries whereas Kington nearly always offers an angle around the shaping.  On with the match!

#1: Despite a decent effort at RAF with a side by side two tier green, this choice is simply in no doubt for me. Despite the uphill nature of Kington's opener it is by far the most majestic of the three.  The terrain moves left, but the opening of the uphill green requests the golfer to come in from the right.  The patented mounding around the green is a sign of things to come.  1 SKIN TO KINGTON



#2:  Despite Tom's displeasure, I have to go with Cleeve Cloud for the second...the green is too expressive to ignore.  That said, I really like Kington's second and its green is very good.  I am not a fan of RAF's hole, the forced lay-up/pitch over the sleepered hollow is a bit too obvious. 1 SKIN TO CLEEVE CLOUD



#3: RAF continues its slow start to the round and Kington's par 3 is good, but not terribly memorable.  I am going to go with Cleeve Cloud's short, uphill par 4 to a skyline green.  I really like how the fairway turns right at a dip in the fairway with the land moving left.  1 SKIN TO CLEEVE CLOUD

#4: RAF rolls along with about as much excitement as an episode of East Enders.  CC's 4th is a good hole, wide open, but the width is an illusion.  Kington's offering is a monster uphill par 4 over the 3rd green.  I can't really say one is better than the other so RAF catches a break; NO BLOOD.

#5:  A very good trio of holes here.  K's par 3 is a slippery uphill affair which will usually not pay dividends to the chap banging a ball on the green.  CC's hole is a favourite of mine with a lovely green ensconced among a quarry area.  RAF's par 5 is treacherous in that a good drive will see an opportunity to carry a stream and some messy vegetation.  I can't say if one hole is superior so again, NO BLOOD.

#6. K's modest length par 4 plays uphill all the way to a left to right sloping fairway.  The green seemingly hangs of hill edge and it is rare to see the right rampart successfully defeated.  CC's one shotter is a lovely hole played over a quarry.  RAF's par 3 is quite difficult with a plateau green, water front and left and mounding down the right.  For me, this hole is a winner....1 SKIN TO RAF.

Behind RAF's 6th.


The match stands at

2 skins for Cleeve Cloud...#s 2 &3

1 Skin for Kington...#1

1 Skin for RAF...#6

No blood for #s 4 & 5. 

Ciao

[Sean_A]

Cleeve Cloud V RAF V Kington

The match stands at 2 skins for Cleeve Cloud and 1 each for RAF and Kington...thru 6 holes.

#7. RAF's uphill two-shotter sees us dig further into the quality of the course.  CC's par 4 is very good too, downhill then slightly uphill to an excellent green both in interest and placement.  Kington's par 5 is not bad at all, especially the prospect of two blind shots to reach the green, but the hole is clearly a notch below the others.  I think the quality of CC's green carries the day.  It seems the more I think about this hole the more I think highly of it.  1 SKIN TO CLEEVE CLOUD



#8. More of a linking hole, CC's effort is simply okay.  Kington's new tee 8th is a disaster destroying the concept of the original hole.  Almost by default the winner here is clearly RAF.  That said, the par 5 is a goodun' with the green cut-off from the fairway by earthworks. 1 SKIN TO RAF

Behind the green.


#9. RAF's nasty uphill short hole reveals the true nature of the course's penal design.  The hole is all carry with no room for error...I like it.  CC's extremely downhill par 4 is a good hole wigth a cool green site. However, I think Kington's effort steals the show in grand style.  Set on left to right slope with a valley feeding to Wales, the blind hollows protecting the natural kick in require a precise strike.  The wind is often howling on this part of the course; those in the know know how good a three is on this hole.  1 SKIN TO KINGTON





#10. K's par 4 starts the downhill journey home with a blind drive tilting right.  The cruse two tier green green runs away from the play making a birdie a rare bird indeed.  CC's longish par 3 is downhill and enticing despite the inconvenient gorse blocking a full view of the shot.  RAF's shortish par 4 is of mild interest.  In a bit of a surprise, but quite clearly the case; 1 SKIN TO KINGTON

#11. K's par 5 features a blind drive titing right and a green which falls heavily away from play...very good indeed.  RAF's effort is a long downhill par 3 which is really just about bashing the ball, not to my liking, though I applause the length of the hole.  CC's shortish par 4 to a skyline green makes good use of an awkward area.  All three holes have elements that admire; NO BLOOD.

#12. K's par 3 is simply one of the best in England.  Sloping downhill left, the green is protected by earthworks except for an entrance gate on the right.  This is a remarkable hole which sees the earthworks both defending the green and gathering balls.  RAF's par 5 is very good; playing downhill and sloping left.  The green is tightly guarded by mounding.  Not so fast here!  CC's 12th is outstanding as well.  A long, tough par 4 playing to an uphill, fortess like green which is bean shaped; this hole would grace most courses in England. My heart says Kington is the winner, but my head says NO BLOOD. 

Cleeve Cloud


The 12th is an example of some unusually shaped greens.


RAF


Kington


There is a gate off-set right and golfers who can't make the carry over the mounding do attempt the running hook.   


Afte 12 holes the match stands

Kington: 3 skins - 1, 9 & 10

Cleeve Cloud: 3 skins - 2, 3 & 7

RAF: 2 skins - 6 & 8

4 no blood holes - 4, 5 11 & 12

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Just a quick comment, but if a hole is halved in skins then the winner of the next one gets 2 don't they?

[Sean_A]

Just a quick comment, but if a hole is halved in skins then the winner of the next one gets 2 don't they?

No carry overs...it wouldn't make sense in this instance.


Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sean I hope you will continue and see this one out. I can see why you'd match them up but really they aren't that similar.
 
I have played all 3 but my memory clearly isn't as good as yours and CC is the only one I've seen twice. That said I'm predicting RAF falling further behind because the terrain isn't as extreme as the other two and the imposed no bunker limitation eventually becomes limiting. The other two offer more surprises as they deal with some pretty varied terain.  This format may help CC as it probably has more weak holes than Kington and I will be amazed if your favourite doesn't prevail, even if you do see sense and give 18 to CC!

[Sean_A]

Spangles

Your wish is my command.

Cleeve Cloud V RAF V Kington 

The match stands at 3 skins for Cleeve Cloud, 3 for Kington and 2 for RAF..thru 12 holes.

13. Kington offers another very strong par 4 with a blind drive drifting down the hill left.  The green is exceptional. Cleeve Cloud's very long par 4 too is very good and features a one-off green which I greatly admire.  Luckily, I cannot call a winner between K and CC so once again RAF gets lucky, very lucky.  NO BLOOD.

CC's 13th




Kington's


14. K gives a par 5 which seems as though it runs on forever, very beautiful, but no dumb blonde.  CC's long par 4 is good, but once again we get a blind drive.  RAF's 14th is a cracking par 3 with a longish carry.  Despite not usually giving short holes the benefit of the doubt, the shaping around green wins out for me. 1 SKIN TO RAF 



15. RAF gives us a wee par 4 with, yet again (heavy sigh) its green severed from the fairway by mounding and rough.  CC short hole plays over quarry.  Its a good hole, but a bit of  lost opportunity by leaving s much space between the quarry and green.  K's short hole is a 200 yard drop shot over a field of micro-contours.  None of the holes completely satisfy me, but K's 15th is a stunner visually and requires some deft chipping when the green is almost invariably missed.  1 SKIN KINGTON



#16.  RAF's 16th is a bit of drowsy thing without much to recommend it.  K's is a solid par 4 to an interesting raised green.  However, the clear winner here must be CC.  The long, up the valley par 3 is somewhat spoiled by dopey bunkering, but even that can't eliminate the obvious merits of the hole.  1 SKIN TO CLEEVE CLOUD



#17. CC gives us another strong hole.  The blind downhill drive must work its way between two quarries then eventually funnel down to a green between bunkers.  K's hole is solid without being spectacular.  RAF's 17th is outstanding and the best hole on the course.  Despite my love for CC's 17th, the bunkering lets the hole down enough to allow RAF to sneak  win.  1 SKIN TO RAF



#18.  This is a bit of a foregone conclusion because we all know that K's home hole is the best I have ever seen...no need for further discussion.  1 SKIN TO KINGTON



Kington wins a tight match, closer than it probably deserved to be with two tie all tie in place.  While not scientific, I think this playful match helps explain my fascination with folks who think RAF is all that.  I don't think so and in fact don't believe it is any better than little no name Cleeve Cloud! 

Kington: 5 skins - 1, 9, 10, 15 & 18.

Cleeve Cloud: 4 skins - 2, 3, 7 & 16.

RAF: 4 skins - 6, 8, 14 & 17.

5 no blood holes - 4, 5 11, 12, 13

Next up, the Champion of the Hills takes on a under-appreciated gem; Huntercombe and the well known New Zealand . My initial thoughts are this is a tall order for both NZ and Huntercombe, but these courses do have some tricks up their sleeves.

Match I: Minch Old V Painswick V Cleeve Cloud
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63660.0.html

Ciao