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Tim Leahy

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Le Golf National?
« on: October 03, 2016, 06:11:44 AM »
Has anyone played the next Ryder Cup course? Impressions. Pictures look like a Florida course. Flat with lots of water. Advantage USA?
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 09:00:44 AM »
I played it once when I lived in Paris in the late 90's. That was enough.
Thought it was a "wannabe-links course" with WAY too much water. Yes, sort of an "Art Hills-ish" Florida course for cart-ballers.


When I heard it was going to host the Ryder Cup, I was shocked.
Must be politics in the same way that Valhalla gets large US events.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 09:25:34 AM »
Great golf course IMO. Think it's the players favourite on the European Tour. The GCA crowd will diss it as rubbish though.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jim Franklin

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 09:40:45 AM »
Designed by??
Mr Hurricane

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 09:47:14 AM »
I would not describe Golf National as flat. It _was_, before they started construction. But they imported 1.6 million cu m of construction spoil to the site, plus I think they generated another 600,000 cu m from excavating the lakes.


They used all that material to build a golf course that looks a bit like a links, albeit with lots and lots of water, though it doesn't really play like one. Adrian is right that the pros really like it -- as the home of the French federation it became the permanent home of the French Open as soon as it was ready.


The course is undergoing a fairly significant renovation in advance of the Ryder Cup under the supervision of European Golf Design, but I doubt its character will change. It was specifically designed from day 1 to cope with big crowds, so is a good fit for the RC in that respect.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Graham

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 09:47:44 AM »

David_Tepper

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 09:48:15 AM »
"Advantage USA?"

Tim L. -

Given that this course has been a regular stop on the Euro Tour for many years, it is hard to imagine the USA team would have an advantage. When the match is held in 2018, the guys on the Euro team will likely have played 5 to 10 times more rounds on the course than the guys on the USA team.

DT   

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 10:12:19 AM »
Designed by??


Robert Von Hagge.
I don't think it was Von Hagge. It was someone else and their first course but he is not always credited for it. His name escapes me.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 10:26:34 AM »
Designed by??


Robert Von Hagge.
I don't think it was Von Hagge. It was someone else and their first course but he is not always credited for it. His name escapes me.


It was von Hagge with Hubert Chesneau, but there was a disagreement during the build and they took RvH's name off it. Chesneau was not really a golf architect.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 10:59:46 AM »
There is this old thread from 11 years ago - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,20376.msg1386353.html#msg1386353


The venue has two courses. The course for the Ryder Cup is called the Albatros course.


Atb

Carl Rogers

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 12:20:44 PM »
Won't it be declared a great golf course and then spend the requisite $20 million on it?
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Greg Gilson

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2016, 12:25:22 AM »
I'd love to Patrice Boissonas to chime in here. I have only visited LGN once - during a 2 week stay in France playing the wonderful golden age courses in the city as well as out of Le Touquet. We played with Patrice at Morfontaine and he persuaded us to play LGN , which we had not pre-planned. We played 1 week after that year's French Open & had a BLAST!!!!

Firstly, it is an engineering achievement. You can get a sense of the topography they got dealt just by looking around. They moved an incredible amount of dirt in/around ...but IMHO , just the right amount without going OTT.

Secondly, it is a very, very strategic course with many playing options on most holes....providing for a fun round

Thirdly, its quite different to the rest of the great , top shelf courses around Paris....so that's a point of difference

I can understand detractors moaning about the difficulty...and there are forced water carries on many holes. However, our group included men & women with a handicap range of 0-36 and all rated the course very favourably. I will certainly include it in future visits , if at all possible.

PS. I have not included this above but I reckon it will be a FANTASTIC match play venue!

Steve Okula

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 11:25:38 AM »
I've been living a half hour from GN for the past 15 years and I've learned a little about it.

Golf National was designed by Von Hagge, though Chesneau claims credit for it. It is modeled more on TPC Sawgrass than on any links, huge mounding between and among the holes makes for great spectator viewing. The Albatross course is the tournament venue, and there are 27 other holes but nothing at all interesting or even well-maintained. The practice area is big and wide.

Most importantly for economic and practical considerations, GN has the infrastructure and the experience to host a major event. It is easily accessed from major arteries around Paris, it has abundant open space for parking and marquis. There is a hotel of several hundred rooms on site, and ample meeting rooms, restaurants, and various interior spaces. They have hosted the French Open, which is one of the bigger European Tour events, for the past 20 years or more, so they have had time to rehearse, and they have all kinds of power and communication cables installed underground around the property. All these things are actually more important to a successful Ryder Cup than the integrity of the golf course architecture.

Golf National is adored by the tour pros, but the appeal escapes my limited ability. Forced carries over water on the first two holes disqualifies it from being great in my opinion, and water also comes into play on three of the last our holes, and another one or two mid-round.

Since they were awarded the RC, the French Golf Federation has spent millions to augment the infrastructure and improve the course. Most of the work on the golf course involved drainage, irrigation, bunker stabilization, a few new tees and cart paths. The original design has been essentially unchanged.

The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 06:20:54 AM »
Bump as it's the French Open this week and it's the 2019 Ryder Cup course.
Anyone play it recently or plan to play it before the RC is held there?
Atb

Søren Rye

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Re: Le Golf National?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 02:16:06 AM »
A buddy of mine lived in Paris a while back, so I have played LGN twice on two seperate visits (along with Chantilly, St. Germain, Paris International, and some course near the airport which name escapes me).


As mentioned above, it is a tough course with lots of water, incl. carries. The tee shots are super important, as you can quickly run up a high score if you are out of position or not on the short stuff. One time, we played the week after the French Open and the rough was brutal. The forced water carries are not overly long and fits nicely into this stadium setup. The holes 15-16-18 come together in the same area, and this will work perfectly for the RC.

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