[Tim_Weiman]

Peter Palotta recently started an thread essentially asking if a person could fake their way through a claim that they had played the Top 100 Courses.


It occurred to me that there are possibly two types of courses on the Top 100 list: those that have gotten a lot of television exposure and those that are relatively obscure. The latter group, I assume, would be the most difficult to fake.


But, what about a famous course that is frequently on television?


What about a course like Pebble Beach.


What questions would you ask to determine whether the person has played Pebble Beach or really just seen it on television?

[BHoover]

Why would anyone care?

[Bill Shamleffer]

I might ask some very detailed questions about the 5th hole.

[Tim_Weiman]

Why would anyone care?

Brian,


I thought Peter's thread was kind of interesting and my question "Have I played Pebble Beach?" is kind of a follow up.


Sure, one might not care at all and then my follow up question wouldn't be interesting either.

[Tim_Weiman]

I might ask some very detailed questions about the 5th hole.

Ok, what would be your first question?

[Peter Pallotta]

Tim - I hope you have more success than I did; folks just don't seem to like the question. As I mentioned in my old thread, to me it was a way of potentially highlighting the aspects/features/experiences of a great golf course that don't often get mentioned in the many reviews we see here or in magazines -- the thinking being that perhaps it is these very aspects that reflect the essential experience of a game of golf there (as opposed to, say, an intellectual post-facto analysis).

So, I think you have played Pebble Beach, and, assuming you walked it, was wondering what you thought of the routing, specifically in terms of the courses walkability and the "journey" it takes you on.  Did you ever "feel lost" out there, in either a satisfying or annoying way? 

[Mark Bourgeois]

I can't think of any architecture questions. They'd have to be questions like, who was your caddy?

Well, maybe something vague like, how did you feel when you came to 17 tee and took in the view?

I might ask some very detailed questions about the 5th hole.

"Oh I played the old one."

[Bill Shamleffer]

I might ask some very detailed questions about the 5th hole.

Ok, what would be your first question?

Tim,
I do not know, as I have never played Pebble Beach.  But, since the 5th was completely re-built within the past year, and is only seen a few times when the US Open is at Pebble Beach, I suspect it would be the least known hole by someone, like me, who has never been to Pebble Beach.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tim - I hope you have more success than I did; folks just don't seem to like the question. As I mentioned in my old thread, to me it was a way of potentially highlighting the aspects/features/experiences of a great golf course that don't often get mentioned in the many reviews we see here or in magazines -- the thinking being that perhaps it is these very aspects that reflect the essential experience of a game of golf there (as opposed to, say, an intellectual post-facto analysis).

So, I think you have played Pebble Beach, and, assuming you walked it, was wondering what you thought of the routing, specifically in terms of the courses walkability and the "journey" it takes you on.  Did you ever "feel lost" out there, in either a satisfying or annoying way?

Peter,


Yeah, people don't seem to like the question. Not sure why.


Just for fun, I will neither confirm or deny I have played Pebble Beach.


So, as for the routing, I like it! I like the way holes play along the water. And, wow, 18 is a great finish.

[Tim_Weiman]

I might ask some very detailed questions about the 5th hole.

Ok, what would be your first question?

Tim,
I do not know, as I have never played Pebble Beach.  But, since the 5th was completely re-built within the past year, and is only seen a few times when the US Open is at Pebble Beach, I suspect it would be the least known hole by someone, like me, who has never been to Pebble Beach.

Bill,


Asking about #5 is probably a good choice. However, assuming one has played and is familiar PB, my thought would be one would have to ask about features on holes that aren't really featured prominently on television.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tim - that was a suspiciously familiar/common answer regarding the routing, but I will let it go and assume that you just happen to be quite a conventional fellow 

So, my next question:  on the 11th hole, did you manage to stay on the left side off the tee? I mean, the way the small green runs away from you can be quite a challenge. 

Peter

[Tom_Doak]

The question I would ask would always be, "what surprised you most about Pebble Beach?" or whatever course.  There are several possible answers in most cases, but if someone gave none of them, I'd be suspicious and start asking about those.


For Pebble, I'd expect someone who had never seen it before to be startled by how small the greens are, and how much tilt some of them have.  They might well be startled by how flat the 17th hole is ... you never get a sense of that from the TV towers.  Or they might be startled how interesting some of the inland holes are, and how uninteresting others of them are.

[Steve Salmen]

With respect, #5 is a poor place to start. The only time I played Pebble was in 1992. That hole is NLE. I'd start with the 15th tee shot. Like 18 at Yale, where do you begin to line up without assistance? Then maybe ask about the approach to 14 because it is so uphill and target is so small. Ask about the target off #8 tee (chimney).

[mike_beene]

What were your impressions of number 6. I am always surprised by how steep that hill is. A hole going to the water that steeply uphill is strange.

[Matt_Cohn]

What questions would you ask to determine whether the person has played Pebble Beach or really just seen it on television?

I think I'd ask what surprised them most. If they haven't been there, that would be an awkward one.


On the other hand, I think for any course you could just answer "The elevation changes!" and it would seem plausible.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tim - that was a suspiciously familiar/common answer regarding the routing, but I will let it go and assume that you just happen to be quite a conventional fellow 

So, my next question:  on the 11th hole, did you manage to stay on the left side off the tee? I mean, the way the small green runs away from you can be quite a challenge. 

Peter

Peter,


I think asking about position off the tee on 11 is a good question. The routing? Not so much. Too easy to fake.

[Tim_Weiman]

With respect, #5 is a poor place to start. The only time I played Pebble was in 1992. That hole is NLE. I'd start with the 15th tee shot. Like 18 at Yale, where do you begin to line up without assistance? Then maybe ask about the approach to 14 because it is so uphill and target is so small. Ask about the target off #8 tee (chimney).

Steve,


The approach to 14 was definitely among my top questions. Ditto for 8 tee. The approach is so famous and so much the focus on TV, but I don't think faking familiarity with the tee shot would be so easy.

[Jon Heise]

"Well, here's the picture of me standing on the 7th tee box..."

[BHoover]

I would ask, "Did you play Pebble Beach? I mean, only a sad, pathetic loser would lie about playing a course he didn't actually play, right?"

[Tim_Weiman]

I would ask, "Did you play Pebble Beach? I mean, only a sad, pathetic loser would lie about playing a course he didn't actually play, right?"

Brian,


Well, if the guy is a liar and a jerk he might reply: "Of course I've played Pebble Beach. I'm not some pathetic loser".


But, say we were talking about Crystal Downs. I doubt that kind of exchange would take place.

[BCowan]

I would ask, "Did you play Pebble Beach? I mean, only a sad, pathetic loser would lie about playing a course he didn't actually play, right?"

Brian,


Well, if the guy is a liar and a jerk he might reply: "Of course I've played Pebble Beach. I'm not some pathetic loser".


But, say we were talking about Crystal Downs. I doubt that kind of exchange would take place.

What's the difference?  I'd ask him if he was a rater or make fun of him for paying $225 or $250 to play it

[BHoover]

I would ask, "Did you play Pebble Beach? I mean, only a sad, pathetic loser would lie about playing a course he didn't actually play, right?"

Brian,


Well, if the guy is a liar and a jerk he might reply: "Of course I've played Pebble Beach. I'm not some pathetic loser".


But, say we were talking about Crystal Downs. I doubt that kind of exchange would take place.

Why waste your time caring?

[Kalen Braley]

Why?  Its a guy thing...they just can't seem to avoid these..

[JLahrman]

The question I would ask would always be, "what surprised you most about Pebble Beach?" or whatever course.  There are several possible answers in most cases, but if someone gave none of them, I'd be suspicious and start asking about those.

For Pebble, I'd expect someone who had never seen it before to be startled by how small the greens are, and how much tilt some of them have.

If someone's answer to this question after his/her first round at Pebble Beach ISN'T the size of the greens, I'd be shocked.

The size of the greens hardly ever get mentioned on TV broadcasts. And it's hard to take notice of them when you're busy watching the waves crashing on the beach and Bill Murray falling into bunkers. But when you play the course, it's simply unbelievable how tiny those greens are.

[Tim_Weiman]

See, now I can be pretty sure that Mr. Lahrman *has* played Pebble Beach while Mr. Weiman has not. Identifying specific moments of design-induced *terror* is indicative of an actual physical experience, while rambling poetically about crashing waves speaks instead of book/tv-learning of a rather obvious type. All of which also suggests this: that PB can charge $500 as a bucket list item because of the setting, but it is an 8 or 9 because of the architecture.

Peter,


The first time I played Pebble I had 185 to the 8th green, exactly what Jack Nicklaus said he had in a video where he played a five iron which was exactly my choice.


But, when I stepped up to hit my shot, I choked. Terrified of producing an awful memory of hitting this shot short, I went for my teddy bear - my trusty old Powerbilt persimmon 5 wood.


Yeah, great choice! I blasted it about twenty yards over the green. Then, thanks to the golfing gods, I probably hit my best Phil Mickelsen shot ever, leaving a four foot uphill putt which I made. Probably my most memorable experience playing a famous hole!


Oh, I agree. The 2nd shot on #6 is pretty terrifying.

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