[Ally Mcintosh]

Conversation on the Future BUDA venues thread has me start this one.

I like strictly 2-ball clubs, not because I particularly enjoy foursomes (although I do enjoy it as part of a 36 hole day or during the winter... Or perhaps when I retire and have lots more time).... But because I don't really like four balls... It's a format where you spend half your time looking for other people's balls and go round in 5 hours.... I also think it's less sociable than a two ball singles match where you are actually forced to get to know your opponent better over the course of 18 holes and a bite to eat.

So Mark Chaplin mentioned a few 2-ball clubs:

Brancaster
Rye
Huntercombe
Royal Ashdown
Aldeburgh
Royal Worlington

One of my favourites is also 2-ball only:

West Sussex / Pulborough

What other ones are there?

[Mark Pearce]

HCEG

[Brad Treadwell]

HCEG

Not so sure about that...I've played in a four ball there...although a member we ran into asked me if we were "the dreaded four ball" that was going out.  Maybe allowed at certain times but discouraged?

[Mark Chaplin]

RSG allows visitor four balls on Tuesday. Member play is strictly 2 ball.

Deal allow four ball Monday and Thursday, member golf is two ball although there is a member four ball competition - in February.

[Michael Whitaker]

Most two ball clubs allow fourballs at least one day of the week, do they not? If not, they are costing themselves quite a lot of potential visitor income.

[Greg Taylor]

Woking...?!


Certainly as visitors.

[Jon Wiggett]

Most two ball clubs allow fourballs at least one day of the week, do they not? If not, they are costing themselves quite a lot of potential visitor income.

Michael,


most of the clubs that have such rules do not need to place income ahead of tradition and the membership.

[Chris Mavros]

I believe the main format at HCEG is foursomes, but four balls is allowed off the Tenth tee in the mornings of certain days of the week. 

[Mark Pearce]

HCEG allow four balls in the morning on Tuesday's and Thursday's.  Those are visitor days.  Members try to avoid those days.  The only other time there will be more than two balls in a game would be when there are an odd number of pairs in the afternoon foursomes pool, when they will send out a six some (six players playing alternate shot) last.

[James Brown]

RSG allows visitor four balls on Tuesday. Member play is strictly 2 ball.

Deal allow four ball Monday and Thursday, member golf is two ball although there is a member four ball competition - in February.

I was amused during my trip to RSG in August this year to see quite a few groups tee off as two-balls and then switch to 4-balls on the 2nd or 3rd tee.  My caddie said it is getting more common. 

[Richard Fisher]

There is quite a lot of 'invented tradition' around all of this. The late and much-lamented Bobby Furber (who was Captain of RSG in 1981, the year the Open came back to Sandwich) told me that during the 1950s people played at RSH in exactly whatsoever format they wanted, including 4-balls, on a course that was never exactly crowded. I am basically an impatient golfer and love 2-ball-preferred clubs like Huntercombe and Brancaster and Woking, and was one of those who some years ago voted against even the (very) modest relaxation of the rules proposed at Huntercombe, which now permit a very small amount of member 4-ball play at weekends, to accommodate the stated wishes of some of the  members, especially some of the younger ones. But the world has not ended, and visiting societies at Huntercombe continue to play a great deal of 3-ball competitions, even if foursomes emphatically remains the dominant format for most member golf.

[Adrian_Stiff]

2 BALL CLUBS  usually equal Snobotoriums.

[John Mayhugh]

2 BALL CLUBS  usually equal Snobotoriums.

I've played most of the clubs listed in Ally's post.  I didn't find any of them to be snobbish or unwelcoming. 

I really enjoy the pace of two ball play. 

[Sean_A]

2 BALL CLUBS  usually equal Snobotoriums.

There is a certain courtly air at many 2 ball clubs, but I wouldn't call them snobotoriums. The one 2ball club which stands out as very friendly is Hunstanton. 


Ciao

[Ryan Coles]

I wouldn't pay money to a venue so inflexible and unaccommodating.

With a two tee start there's no reason why 2's and 4's can't co-exist.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I wouldn't pay money to a venue so inflexible and unaccommodating.

With a two tee start there's no reason why 2's and 4's can't co-exist.

That is why I see them as Snobotoriums. They are unflexible and unaccommodating and you are 100% right 2s and 4s can coexist.

[Sean_A]

I wouldn't pay money to a venue so inflexible and unaccommodating.

With a two tee start there's no reason why 2's and 4's can't co-exist.

That is why I see them as Snobotoriums. They are unflexible and unaccommodating and you are 100% right 2s and 4s can coexist.

Adrian


I take a different view and say the clubs are accomodating because most do allow periods of 4ball play and more importantly...they do allow visitors without connections.  It seems entirely reasonable when visiting a club to fit in with their culture rather than slam a label on them as snobs because they don't allow exactly what I want.  But, its your money so you gotta right.  As golf takes seemingly more and more time to play, I like 2ball more and more. 


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

It can be a long walk when you're only playing every other shot, and sometimes not even that many. Each to their own though.
Atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

I wouldn't pay money to a venue so inflexible and unaccommodating.

With a two tee start there's no reason why 2's and 4's can't co-exist.

That is why I see them as Snobotoriums. They are unflexible and unaccommodating and you are 100% right 2s and 4s can coexist.

Adrian


I take a different view and say the clubs are accomodating because most do allow periods of 4ball play and more importantly...they do allow visitors without connections.  It seems entirely reasonable when visiting a club to fit in with their culture rather than slam a label on them as snobs because they don't allow exactly what I want.  But, its your money so you gotta right.  As golf takes seemingly more and more time to play, I like 2ball more and more. 


Ciao

Sean - If they allow 4ball play sometimes then they are not strictly 2 ball courses which was the question.


I would say 90% of our play is 4 ball (2016) I reckon the 2 ball/4ball play was 50-50 (1980).


Foursomes is on it's last legs. I like it personally but in the Bristol area we have 8 leagues with 6 teams in each and getting people to play at weekends is an art! it seems to fit nice for midweek summer evenings. We (with a young membership) have no call for an annual club foursome competition people seeing it as only half a game.

[Richard Fisher]

I do think Sean's right - each to his own, and those clubs taking green fees in significant quantities have invariably adjusted their practices accordingly to reflect modern demand. Hunstanton nowadays has '4-ball days' and '2-ball days', which seems a sensible compromise when, as with many seaside courses (especially) there is only one feasible starting point. Those of us who really like playing foursomes tend to make a beeline for places like Huntercombe and Brancaster  or The Sacred Nine where they are still very much the order of the day (and indeed at the 'Combe there is a special green fee rate for foursomes play). But I totally understand that they are not everybody's cup of tea.

[Sean_A]

It can be a long walk when you're only playing every other shot, and sometimes not even that many. Each to their own though.
Atb

2ball doesn't have to be 4somes  .


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

It can be a long walk when you're only playing every other shot, and sometimes not even that many. Each to their own though.
Atb

2ball doesn't have to be 4somes  .


Ciao

Yes, I think that's important to remember. Whilst I like 2-ball only clubs, I'd run a mile from a foursomes only club.

[Craig Disher]

Why would any club decide to be foursomes only? I don't think there are any although I stand to be corrected.

[JJShanley]

HCEG

In fairness, I think they'll vote again on the issue in the near future.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Is there such a thing as a recreational foursomes? It strikes me as a purely competetive form of play, because I have never seen two players playing foursomes in a recreational way, i. e. without opponents. But I certainly have seen a lot of players playing singles without an opponent (aka stroke play).

So foursomes is not a good fit for recreational players. While I have no actual numbers, I do assume that only very few golf clubs could actually afford to build up their membership with only competetive players.

Ulrich

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