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Jerry Kluger

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Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« on: September 14, 2016, 05:30:18 AM »
I just got back home from the Buda Cup and was wondering why power trolleys are hardly being used in the US. Overall the use of riding carts is far greater in the US but we have thoroughly discussed that before.  To me the power trolleys/push carts, are incredibly easy to use and gives you no excuse to ride in a cart. 

Tom Fagerli

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2016, 06:43:33 AM »
I got one the end of July and love it. Much better than carrying, pushing or riding. There is some stigma I guess. I don't care. I saw the champion of the British Am use one this year so good enough for him good enough for me- not to mention Jerry's endorsement.

Sean_A

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2016, 07:03:56 AM »
There are a few issues with power trolleys.


1. They aren't cheap.


2. The batteries need to be recharged (what a pain...just another thing to plan) and often don't last that many years...expensive to replace.


3. On a ton of courses its just as easy to use a three wheel push trolley.  Where the power trolley comes in handy is for hilly courses. 


I wonder if the three-wheelers are starting to eat into the power trolley market.  I see a lot of things as people realize it isn't all kisses and wine with power trolleys.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BHoover

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2016, 07:33:12 AM »
I once played a round with a guy who had a power trolley. It was one of the ones controlled with a handheld remote control. It was great until he got distracted walking from 9 to 10 and wasn't watching as it rolled into a creek. After we fished it out of the creek, and emptied his bag of several gallons of water, the trolley surprisingly made it through the back nine, albeit noticeably slower. He had to replace the battery pack after the round was over (not to mention his cellphone and rangefinder, both of which were fried by the water).

Other than the cost and the fact that you need to pay attention to where it's going, the power trolley sure does seem like a great investment.

Andy Shulman

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2016, 07:59:28 AM »
The economics don't really work for most golfers.  While I've paid to rent one, I can't see spending $1,000 or so (based on Golfsmith.com) to buy one of my own.  Renting one in the UK generally costs 10 GBP, or about $13.  For just a few $$ more, you can rent a driving cart/buggy in the US.

BCowan

Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2016, 08:08:57 AM »
Jerry,

   My mother has a powered trolley by cart tek.  It folds up and is very light.  In the morning when she plays and if there is dew the pushing of the other one wears her down.  Cart tek is really good stuff.

Those are too expensive of investment for a club or most courses in our US culture, just getting places to buy push trolleys for rent is the way to go.  My parents former club has a strong walking culture, people own their own. Now there is a club in Detroit that gets $20 for mandatory trolley rental.  I would expect powered trolleys, but they dont have thwm.  We are currently trying to get a detroit club to allow trolleys for non caddie times. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:13:20 AM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2016, 08:56:56 AM »
Like most choices, it just comes down to money and perceived value.  Power carts in this country are just absurdly expensive for what they provide vs. a high quality push cart, especially when you factor in storage, recharging the battery between rounds, etc.

I've been told by friends from the UK that good quality power carts are far, far cheaper there.  If that's so, I have no idea why that would be the case, and no idea why a manufacturer wouldn't take a shot at the US market at a reasonable price point.

However, it might be a limited market anyway, given the predominance of riding vs. walking in this country.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Craig Disher

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2016, 08:57:22 AM »
Can anyone estimate how many courses in the US allow trolleys, push, pull or powered? In the UK it's probably close to 100%.

Criss Titschinger

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2016, 08:59:42 AM »
My club is pretty hilly by most standards. A lot of members have powered trolleys. There is space allocated for them in the cart barn. There's a modest annual fee to store the unit in the barn, and there are plenty of outlets to recharge batteries. The club has a strong walking culture despite the topography, and this helps members who want to walk but who can't hoof it or have issues with the push cart when you meet some of the hills (8 green to 9 tee is pretty severe). I would say at least 5%-10% of the membership has/uses one.

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 09:54:30 AM »
We do have them, they're called carts.




Carl Johnson

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2016, 03:43:39 PM »
My club is pretty hilly by most standards. A lot of members have powered trolleys. There is space allocated for them in the cart barn. There's a modest annual fee to store the unit in the barn, and there are plenty of outlets to recharge batteries. The club has a strong walking culture despite the topography, and this helps members who want to walk but who can't hoof it or have issues with the push cart when you meet some of the hills (8 green to 9 tee is pretty severe). I would say at least 5%-10% of the membership has/uses one.


This sounds a lot like my club, except that it would be less than 5% who use one -- more like 2% at the most.  Carrying is popular, as are push/pull carts (trolley's).  I use a Kangaroo brand "power trolley" that I bought used a number of years ago for $300 (new, the loaded ones are about $2,000 today).  Storage at the club, which includes keeping the battery charged, is $10/month.  At my club it is mostly the older members who use them, transitioning from the push/pull variety at the age when the power help is appreciated on our hills.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2016, 07:57:02 PM »
No fun when the battery gives out during the round. You need two carts then, one to transport the trolley back to the clubhouse and the other to continue playing :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2016, 02:55:28 AM »
A half decent power trolley is around £500 in the UK, that's $650, retail. Trade less VAT which isn't applicable on exports would be circa £325-350 so there is potentially a decent margin at say $850 retail

I can only think there are some pretty punitive import taxes - maybe to protect the US cart industry - preventing them being sold at reasonable prices stateside.
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2016, 03:19:48 AM »
Can anyone estimate how many courses in the US allow trolleys, push, pull or powered? In the UK it's probably close to 100%.


The only exception I know of is The Old Course.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2016, 03:30:24 AM »
I suspect it has a lot to do with the facts that the culture in the US seems t be the course lays out what the golfer can/cannot do and decides what facilities they will offer. i.e. golf facilities are driven by the facilities business needs. Golf Courses in the US do not want players bringing their own carts as they want golfers to pay to hire the clubs.


In the UK it is generally the golfer who decides what they are going to do and the club reacts to provide the facilities the members/guests require. Golf courses in the UK do not want to spend money providing the facilities for golfers when the golfer could finance it themselves.


Jon

David Davis

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2016, 03:45:51 AM »
Private clubs - against to protect caddy culture.


Public clubs - against to protect cart sales.


Makes sense.


In Europe where we have no caddy culture and no carts to speak of. Those like Powercaddy etc are a hot item. In Germany they are all over and the fancy ones can run up to 4-5000 USD. Here in Munich at my buddies club at least 50% of the players are using them and the club has financial issues. Go figure. (Of course that's because of lack of members but ironic that the parking lot is full of 6 figure cars all using 4 figure trollies and they are going bankrupt).


At my club a majority including myself uses 3 wheel push carts. Click-gear carts are the most often used. Though a growing number have battery operated ones.




Everyone I know carries a second batter with them for when it runs out. (logically!)
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Niall C

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2016, 04:01:03 AM »
A half decent power trolley is around £500 in the UK, that's $650, retail. Trade less VAT which isn't applicable on exports would be circa £325-350 so there is potentially a decent margin at say $850 retail

I can only think there are some pretty punitive import taxes - maybe to protect the US cart industry - preventing them being sold at reasonable prices stateside.


Mark


There seems to be a lot more choice these days with many options at half the cost you suggest. Not sure if they meet the "half decent" standard as you suggest but I suspect that at least some of them do. "Half decent" push/pull trolley's can cost between £70 and £180.


Niall

Thomas Dai

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2016, 05:04:04 AM »
Usage of power trolleys in GB&I is huge. I would estimate that 60%-70% of men and probably 90% of women use them at the courses I normally play.


Weather conditions and the hilliness and dampness of terrain play a big part though - for example the need in GB&I to have access to heavy/bulky items like brollies and waterproofs for most of the year, even snacks and drinks too, and such things all add up in weight terms and the older the player, and let's remember we're discussing all ages of players here including older seniors of both sexes as well young fit bucks, the more the weight and bulk effect matters.


Before power trollies came along pull (never push) trolleys with not very good wheel bearings were the norm in GB&I and what a pain they were, especially on a hilly or damp course....aching arms and general fatigue etc from pulling the trolley not from the golf. I can remember having to oil the bearings by sliding off the small metal cap, just like on a bike wheel, which is what many of them were, small bike or pram wheels with spokes. Latterly wide wheels came into fashion, allegedly to prevent damage to courses.


Over the last few years the lightweight and ease of roll of push (or pull) trolleys has increased significantly, which I suggest is why they are used more these days, but seemingly rarely by older folks, seniors or the infirm and much less so on hillier and damper courses. 'Strange' how the narrow free-rolling wheels don't damage the course though (see above).



As to electric trolleys, I have used one in the UK for years. I've never had to have to second 'just in case' battery with me nor been let down and had to 'push-in' from out on the course. There is a great variety in quality and costs of power trolleys though, and as usual, the pay-peanuts-gets-monkeys line is appropriate. It's also worth mentioning that these days lightweight lithium batteries, although more costly to buy, are smaller, weigh less and charge quicker than larger size 'conventional' batteries.


There are all sorts of means of moving your clubs around the course and all have there place. There is imo no real right or wrong way, just what is appropriate to the individual, the course, the weather conditions etc.


What I don't think is appropriate however, is golf clubs imposing rules on what method players can or cannot use.


As to power trolley usage in the US, well heat/humidity in some areas at some or all times of the year may be an issue and I can see the vested interest opposition in carts-making-money for clubs and the protection of caddy programmes. I am though, very surprised at the purchase cost of power trolleys (in Europe well) and the charge to store them at the club...most folks in GB&I seem to keep them in the garage and charge them ourselves.


Atb






« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:08:10 AM by Thomas Dai »

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2016, 05:35:24 PM »
I doubt that there are any protective import taxes - just greedy distributors. 


I also noticed that many clubs had bags containing sand which players would hang from their trolleys to fill in divots which is a wonderful idea that I wish my home course would provide.




Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 08:38:30 PM »
These are used by a handful or so of golfers at my club in Toronto. The club stores them for a fee in the storage area AKA the curling rink. But in a couple of weeks the curling season starts so the club no longer stores them for the season.

Daryl David

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
This company is the distributor for Motocaddy in the US.  The mark up is not bad.  About the same cost as buying one in the UK and shipping over yourself. 


Golf Sellers Direct
800 337 7692
josh@golfsellersdirect.com


http://www.motocaddy.us/


John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2016, 10:07:31 AM »
This company is the distributor for Motocaddy in the US.  The mark up is not bad.  About the same cost as buying one in the UK and shipping over yourself. 


Golf Sellers Direct
800 337 7692
josh@golfsellersdirect.com


http://www.motocaddy.us/


Just ordered one off Amazon using credit card points. Feels like it's free. Now I've got to find a utility belt to carry my phone, range finder and motocaddy remote control. Can't wait to be quasi-walking. Do you ever get too old not to love toys?

Sean_A

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2016, 11:03:58 AM »
This company is the distributor for Motocaddy in the US.  The mark up is not bad.  About the same cost as buying one in the UK and shipping over yourself. 


Golf Sellers Direct
800 337 7692
josh@golfsellersdirect.com


http://www.motocaddy.us/


These things are about £375 in the UK.  Its incredible how the price hasn't come down. Manufacturers are instead trying to find ways to add value and peceived quality.  This approach sound very similar to car companies.


Ciao
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 03:36:06 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BCowan

Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2016, 09:13:50 PM »
Cart Tek

US company $800-1200.  Very high quality

http://www.carttek.com/

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Why so few power trolleys in the US?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2016, 09:44:42 AM »
Cart Tek

US company $800-1200.  Very high quality

http://www.carttek.com/

Ben,
That's kind of the going rate for a quality power trolley in the US, right?  That strikes me as a LOT of money, at least compared to the UK rates; the price should be more like $500 to be comparable if my math is right.

Nobody has explained yet why this is the case.  But whatever the reason, it's a prohibitive price for the US market, I think.  I've been using my ClicGear for 7 years, and it's still in great shape; I could buy three more of them before I'd spend as much as I would for one battery powered cart!  And my guess is that by the time I'll NEED the battery power, I either won't be playing as much, or won't be walking as much.

I love to walk, and I just don't carry my bag much anymore.  If I could get a power cart for $500 and know that I was getting a durable, reliable product, I think I'd be all over it.  But at these prices, you'll NEVER see lots of these carts in the US.  Never say never, but I'm saying NEVER...

"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones