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Kyle Henderson

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Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« on: September 13, 2016, 12:46:08 AM »
Designed by Scotsman William Watson in the early 1920’s, the golf course at Orinda Country Club possesses the usual hallmarks of the golden age – undulating fairways constructed without the aid of heavy machinery, green complexes that frequently allow for running approaches, and peripheral encroachment by trees, housing developments and road construction during the ensuing decades. Fortunately, though the efforts of a sensible greens committee, Orinda CC has recently benefitted from a number of positive changes to the golf course under the direction of architect Todd Eckenrode, shapers Brett Hochstein and George Waters, and Superintendent Josh Smith.

Here are a few shots I took to chronicle the current state of affairs at Orinda CC, in rather wretched mid-day light conditions. I will try to point out the salient features of the work that Todd, Josh and the rest of the illustrious restoration/renovation team have completed.

Small photos of the previous iteration of the course can be found here: http://orindacc.org/web/pages/course-tour

The course tips out at a shade under 6400 yards, but has plenty of teeth for most amateurs.

Not much has changed at the 1st, a 354 yard par 4 that drops precipitously from the hillside-hugging clubhouse


The 1st green, a blind approach unless one drives dangerously close to the fairway's edge, has been expanded/recaptured, with new fescue surrounds providing fast, firm, tight turf to test one's short game. This theme is repeated to fantastic effect throughout the round.


A view from the green's right side, to demonstrate the steepness of the approach. Ring the bell before heading to the second tee.


The 2nd, playing 321 yards uphill, has benefitted from tree removal/thinning. A fairway bunker around 80 yards short of the green has been removed from the left side.


Mounds and non-native trees no longer frame the back of the second green. The bunkering has been reshaped, and the surrounds now allow for running shots to feed on from the green’s left edge.


The par 3s at Orinda are all outstanding now. The 3rd still stretches to 260 yards, but is now much more compelling due to the improved bunkering and the tightly-mown mound just short of the surface that must be correctly negotiated by those approaching with longer clubs/low trajectories. Previously, the green was wide open at front and center, with bunkers protecting both front corners.


At 458 yards in length, the 4th is a very short par “5” by modern standards, but the tee shot is played up a significant slope before the hole turns to the right. A single bunker now guards the inside of the dogleg, where two traps previously sat. Significant tree removal has taken place here as well.
 

The fairway contours have also been sculpted to lower the saddle and improve visibility for the approach.
   

Again, the greenside bunkering has been spruced up and the surrounds reshaped and regrassed to facilitate the ground game.


The 5th (354 yards) has not been significantly altered recently. Tree work has opened up the tee shot a bit – in fact, the angle of this picture from the right side of the tee box makes the corridor appear narrower than it truly is.


The short iron approach up the hill is old school in all the right ways.


A view of the boomerang green from behind demonstrates the closely mown banks at the green’s rear (previously, dense rough covered this area). While I did not find myself on the wrong side of the green with my official ball, I did wander over to examine the possible predicaments when prompted by my host. Kiser claimed it was impossible to putt from one section of the green to another over the bank, but I was able to cozy my only attempt at this putt within a few feet of the cup. It’s a fun shot to try, but not one likely to produce many good scores.
   

The 6th (569 yards) tee shot is a fantastic tester over a road to a fairway angled off to the left.


A well-shaped drive will cut off quite a bit of distance and yield a much better angle of attack on the left-sloping fairway – hooks are hard to avoid, and trees down the right side will provide a stern test for those who find themselves out of position for their second shot.


Positioning further up the fairway is also essential for establishing a clear angle of attack to the green, though a slope on the right is available to kick one on.


The 7th (337 yards) clings tightly to the course’s heavily-treed northeastern property line, with bunkers set to punish those who play too far away from the foliage. The sand traps were reshaped, and the farthest  fairway bunker was pushed even farther from the tee to challenge bombers, during the recent makeover. Cart paths are being removed on the right.


This view from the 8th tee provides a good sense of the significant side slope which characterizes the 7th fairway. The 7th green has been expanded and the contours refined to improve the number of pin locations and recovery options


The 8th (120 yards) is much improved, with a shaved bank can now found at the green’s left and rear where bunkers were previously positioned. Mounds and redwood trees that framed the rear portion of the green were thankfully removed. It’s a short hole, but missing the green is a card killer.


Number 9 (432 yards) bends to the right off the tee. A slight cut down the left center of the fairway will yield this pictured approach shot. The cart path is unfortunate, but plenty of turf remains left of the green to help ease a controlled fade onto the putting surface. Much like the 5th, this hole lays softly on the preexisting slopes and required little shaping to present a compelling series of golf shots.


A look back from behind the green at the cambered, dog-legging fairway
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:09:02 PM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 12:48:17 AM »
At 308 yards from the back tee to the green’s center, the 10th certainly qualifies as a reachable par 4, but the hole narrows considerably as the green is approached. Most will be best served by laying up to a full-wedge distance, as pictured. A creek on the green’s right and rear flanks should be avoided. Recent work on this hole has been focused on selective tree trimming/clearing to improve turf conditions.


The 11th (442 yards) features a left-bending fairway, playing around dense trees and a two-lane road.


The left side of the fairway has been leveled short of the drop-off, improving the lay-up prospects of those who cannot carry the creek below with their second shot. Note the amorphous punchbowl character of the green complex.


The 12th tee (left) is conjoined with the 2nd, hence the familiarity of the view up the starboard corridor. Previously a 463-yard par 5, this hole was shortened ~ 40 (?) yards  to move the 12th green farther from the 3rd putting surface.


The all-new green complex features a prominent front/left mound that can be used to funnel shots toward the flag – this is more easily accomplished from the right side of the fairway.


Here, we look back to the 12th fairway from the right side of the green.


The 13th (192 yards) is possibly the most-improved hole on the golf course, in terms of aesthetics and playing interest. Where two large bunkers used to choke off the left side green surrounds, now there rests a single small bunker in a sea of fairway cut grass - this allows carefully conceived approaches up the port side to trickle right and on.


#14 (290 yards) has been delicately tweaked in recent times, with a right side fairway bunker addition to frame the tee shot, which normally consists of a long iron of hybrid played at the far left fairway trap. New tee boxes to the left are planned to make the prospect of driving the green more enticing.


The green is deep but narrow, with bunkers at either side. The front of the green was “floated” a bit to make closer pin positions appear to hover above the sand.


#15 (186 yards) most recently benefitted from the removal of a greenside trap from the left and expansion of the putting surface on the right toward the property line. A new shorter tee box, well to the left, was also created to add variety.


The 16th (414 yards) no longer has a fairway bunker guarding the right side, and the left greenside trap has been moved ~15 yards closer to the tee box. The uphill approach to the green remains a worthy test, even with a short-ish iron in hand.


While the carts paths have been repositioned or eliminated throughout much of the course, the 17th (347 yards) possibly benefits the most from these efforts, as drives can now chase up the right side and utilize the hillside to feed balls down toward the center. Note the practice green pictured at the right.


Once over the crest of the fairway, a clear view at the green illustrates the premium placed on distance control by the greenside bunkers seen fore and aft.


The home hole (521 yards) has been improved by tree clearing along the right side to reduce claustrophobia and improve the view of the green from the tee.


Long approaches and lay-ups must contend with the hillside on the right. Attractive new bunkering also challenges those who shy away from the hill.


Looking back, one sees the re-contoured putting surface, which now offers more “fair” pin positions.


Clearly, through the efforts of an experienced team of the right people doing the right things, an excellent golf course has been made even better. The urge to head right back to the 1st tee after putting out on 18 is assured.

I hope to return soon!


"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Sean_A

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 06:09:27 AM »
Ummm, not to sound too disgruntled, but why haven't I heard of this terrific look course previously?


How is the walk...not from a heman's PoV of course  8)


It looks like more trees could come out to help with the incredible side hill holes.


Cheers Kyle.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick Kiser

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 09:08:06 AM »
As always, outstanding tour Kyle and thanks for sharing!


The transformation is wonderful and I commend everyone involved for a job well done.  Also kudos to the club for taking their course to another level.  I dare say, Orinda CC is the best the East Bay has to offer now.  At least in my mind.


I really like the par 3s now relative to before.  Overall, there are a lot more fun shots to try throughout while leveraging the re-introduced ground features.  The changes inspire confidence in attempting shots that simply weren't doable prior to the renovation.


It's definitely not a trivial walk when it's a tad hot and without too much of a breeze, but the green to tee transitions are nice and short overall.  Under normal weather conditions, it's a "healthy" walk.  Given the Bay Areas hilly geography, this should not come too much as a surprise.


Jed Peters might just join his old stomping grounds now...  ;D
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 02:59:25 PM »
Ummm, not to sound too disgruntled, but why haven't I heard of this terrific look course previously?


How is the walk...not from a heman's PoV of course  8)


It looks like more trees could come out to help with the incredible side hill holes.


Cheers Kyle.


Ciao

It's a hilly walk, but the distances from greens to tees are reasonable in most cases. They have actually removed quite a few trees, despite some opposition from the local residents.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 04:14:52 PM »
Guessing Todd was not able to persuade the members to remove more trees?  The logic and work look good in the pictures on what is a challenging piece of property.  Just too many trees.
Residents' objections?  It seems all would have benefitted by more tree removal.  But then again it is California.


Willie Watson starting to get his due.  I read recently where he did the original 9 at Fort Washington in Fresno.  Funny I love the feel of that place but always thought there were a few mundane holes(Bob Baldock).
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 04:27:06 PM »
Todd was given carte blanche on the "tree management program".  Here is a sampling....an overhead from ~5 years ago where I've noted large scale tree removals.  The property is blessed with beautiful oaks and sycamores and the tree work over the last few years has really opened things up.  One example is the grove of trees between 12 and 14.  There were 52 trees and more than 2/3's of them were removed. 





The area behind the 10th green was the only portion of the project where tree work was limited due to riparian and "neighbor" issues.  While I was in favor of the removals of these redwoods, now I am actually glad that they remain...it is a beautiful green setting with them (and we've mitigated their effect on the greensite - at least for a while - by installing a root barrier and pruning the trees somewhat).
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 04:27:50 PM »
Calling him Willie is no different then going up to a black board and scraping one's nails......


The man never went by the name "Willie" his entire life.

Carl Nichols

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 04:35:22 PM »
How would people who have played both (current versions) split ten rounds between Orinda and Lake Merced?

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 04:40:53 PM »
Thanks Thomas!


Another view and some rudimentary text additions...this is an old aerial (thanks Bing maps) of the 16th hole on the right and the 17th on the left.  The area between these two holes is wide open and cut as fairway.


"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Joshua Pettit

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 06:30:38 PM »
Willie Watson starting to get his due.  I read recently where he did the original 9 at Fort Washington in Fresno.  Funny I love the feel of that place but always thought there were a few mundane holes(Bob Baldock).
Lynn,

Fort Washington is a great piece of land but need's a lot of work (tree removal, bunkers, green-expansion, mowing lines, etc).  I was quite surprised when I first visited the property -- wasn't expecting undulations like those in the central valley.

The original golf course from 1923 was 9 holes and then the club hired Mr. Watson to expand it to 18 holes sometime in the late 1920s.  I believe his routing is largely intact but everything else has changed quite a bit.
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 10:10:41 PM »
Calling him Willie is no different then going up to a black board and scraping one's nails......


The man never went by the name "Willie" his entire life.

Well someone should let Orinda CC know that. The 12th hole is named "Willie Watson," according to the website.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 10:18:24 PM »
That website reference is outdated and won't be there much longer.  Instead of getting this thread off track, here is a previous discussion:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=62323.0
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 10:25:22 PM »
Calling him Willie is no different then going up to a black board and scraping one's nails......


The man never went by the name "Willie" his entire life.

Well someone should let Orinda CC know that. The 12th hole is named "Willie Watson," according to the website.


Doc,
Watson detested anyone calling him "Willie" as he was a Victorian-aged St. Andrews educated lad. He believed in prim and proper and when he came troths country--along with his very successful father and brother, they entire family continued to live by that mantra.  Take this from someone that used to call him "Willie": regularly until I found out otherwise. (From he late Great Tom MacWood, and further affirmed by someone else who has researched the family better then anyone I know.


His name was William Watson--he had no middle. William and Watson! Remember that!

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2016, 12:47:36 AM »
Calling him Willie is no different then going up to a black board and scraping one's nails......


The man never went by the name "Willie" his entire life.

Well someone should let Orinda CC know that. The 12th hole is named "Willie Watson," according to the website.


Doc,
Watson detested anyone calling him "Willie" as he was a Victorian-aged St. Andrews educated lad. He believed in prim and proper and when he came troths country--along with his very successful father and brother, they entire family continued to live by that mantra.  Take this from someone that used to call him "Willie": regularly until I found out otherwise. (From he late Great Tom MacWood, and further affirmed by someone else who has researched the family better then anyone I know.


His name was William Watson--he had no middle. William and Watson! Remember that!

I'm not arguing with you, T. I'm just pointing out that his name is listed, apparently incorrectly, as 'Willie' throughout the Orinda CC website (in the history and course description sections). Ditto The Olympic Club's website and the NCGA course listing.

In my brief searches, only the authors of the  Fort Washington CC  site seems to be on your page.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2016, 01:30:38 AM »
Don't get me wrong, Its listed that way everywhere!  I think its a vital necessity to make sure we correct that error for others--some of them the most respected architecture historians who don't toe-the-line and think its a mere formality.  as this wonderful thread states, there is so much to be learned about Watson who is a vital component to the growth of Golf in America, not just on the West Coast but also the entire North Central section of the country from Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and possibly more.

William Watson at San Gabriel






« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 01:36:23 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2016, 08:46:48 AM »
Kevin, the aerials are helpful.  No doubt many trees were removed and it is now better.  From the pictures posted(I haven't been there), I still contend more trees need to be removed.  I realize I am a bit more radical than most on this subject.


Sorry Tommy, I always get Watson mixed up with that former SF Giant center fielder. ;D
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

JLahrman

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2016, 02:19:17 PM »
He certainly doesn't look like a "Willie" in that picture.

Question...given the hills and the undulating terrain, how would this course play if it had absolutely no bunkers?

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2016, 01:09:51 PM »
Joel, that is an interesting question.  One example from the recent work...bunkering was removed from the left side and rear of the short 8th, and (borrowing from the line about the 7th at SFGC) arguably the hardest second shot at Orinda now is the approach to the 8th.  The green areas were all sand capped and the turf is cut short, so the areas around the greens play "fast".  I could imagine the approach to the 4th and 14th greens would be would be difficult with the steep fall-offs around the greens.  As it is, holes 1, 11, 12 and 15 (a large bunker on the left was removed) have no bunkers.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Carl Nichols

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 03:33:43 PM »
How would you split ten rounds between Orinda and Lake Merced (current versions)?

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2016, 04:46:19 PM »
How would people who have played both (current versions) split ten rounds between Orinda and Lake Merced?


That honestly might be a 5-and-5, and not as a cop out. Both courses have lots of strengths and some relatively minor weaknesses. Lake Merced is certainly harder and has a few less quirky-type shots. I think after 2 or 3 rounds at Lake Merced you'd look forward to something a little less demanding and more "character"-filled. I also think that after 2 or 3 rounds at Orinda you'd look forward to something slightly more "in front of you". I think the change of scenery in both directions would be pleasant.

JLahrman

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2016, 09:21:45 AM »
Joel, that is an interesting question.  One example from the recent work...bunkering was removed from the left side and rear of the short 8th, and (borrowing from the line about the 7th at SFGC) arguably the hardest second shot at Orinda now is the approach to the 8th.  The green areas were all sand capped and the turf is cut short, so the areas around the greens play "fast".  I could imagine the approach to the 4th and 14th greens would be would be difficult with the steep fall-offs around the greens.  As it is, holes 1, 11, 12 and 15 (a large bunker on the left was removed) have no bunkers.

With lots of hills and undulations on this course, and with it playing firm, it seems to me that the bunkers help contain errant shots. Someone who hits shots off line (like me) could have approach shots wind up who-knows-where if the bunkers aren't there to catch the ball.

I'm not saying that would make the course better, just that in this case the bunkers might make your scoring average lower.

Pity I never got to try this course when I lived in the East Bay; it looks like a lot of fun. Of course, the recent work appears to have made a big improvement.

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2016, 09:51:31 PM »
With lots of hills and undulations on this course, and with it playing firm, it seems to me that the bunkers help contain errant shots. Someone who hits shots off line (like me) could have approach shots wind up who-knows-where if the bunkers aren't there to catch the ball.


Joel, the long downhill 3rd hole in particular would be a devil without bunkers. 


The 17th is another that would be interesting without any greenside bunkers. As it is, many shots end up going long toward the 18th tee (similar to shots on 14 that bound toward the adjacent 15th tee).
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Orinda Country Club (Willie Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2016, 04:14:52 PM »
Kevin, the aerials are helpful.  No doubt many trees were removed and it is now better.  From the pictures posted(I haven't been there), I still contend more trees need to be removed.  I realize I am a bit more radical than most on this subject.


Sorry Tommy, I always get Watson mixed up with that former SF Giant center fielder. ;D


The angles from which my photos were captured were not all in the normal corridors of play, so that may color your perceptions. Certainly, the course still feels a bit constricted in a few places, most noticeably from the 5th,  6th and 7th tees, but overall the corridors are more than generous.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mark_Fine

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Re: Orinda Country Club (William Watson): A pictorial!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 07:43:04 AM »
Anyone have any old photos of what Watson's original bunkers looked like at Orinda?

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