[archie_struthers]

 


Our irrigation system is on its last legs  , and the costs for a new one seems ridiculously expensive .we have replaced our pump house and board over the last couple of years and it seems the couplers and joints are wearing out and blowing with some regularity. Not good when your super has his head in a hole very other week . Need his eyes elsewhere.


Anyone know of any real life solutions to limit the replacement costs. We have a very successful club thanks to a great membership / location but this is a big ticket to swallow . I'm pretty familiar with the construction end but always looking to you guys for some fresh ideas .   Help!

[Blake Conant]

Don Mahaffey would be a good first contact.

[Don Mahaffey]

Archie,
IMO, most important thing to remember is you do have options.
It doesn't have to cost $2M+

We are working on a course right now where we are utilizing most of the pipe, because the club is not reporting pipe failures.
That is unusual, but the system was professionally designed 20 years ago and they could perform simple mathematical calculations 20 years ago just as well as we can today, and PVC hasn't changed much in 20 years and they specified the proper pipe.

One thing to look very close at is sprinkler spacing. You'll hear numbers like 60' as if it is the auto default, some magic number. But the reality is while you may get an 89% distribution uniformity at that spacing (in a windless lab type environment) you can get 86% or so at 70-75'. If you use 20% larger spacing, you don't save 20% of the heads because heads irrigate a circle (ignoring PC along edges for a moment), it takes 56% more heads to cover a given area with 60' spacing vs 75' spacing.  And with single head control where every head can be its own zone, and with topo changes, soil moisture measuring devices to help schedule, simple tools like your phone, ipad, or radio to spot water, is it really worth 56% more heads at about $1300 each to pick up 3% in DU?

I think staying on top of your cultural practices like controlling thatch and managing compaction so you maintain some infiltration is way, way more important than having heads 10 feet closer together.

[Anthony_Nysse]

We have just completed the installation of a brand new, Rainbird irrigation system. Our old system was 29 years old with a history of 3-5 mainline breaks each year for the last 5. The PVC would just shatter. Not a pine hole crack. Our irrigation heads were old hydraulic heads, with poor spacing that had a tendency to waste water into our preserves and marsh areas. We also have 20+ satellites thought the property that would get hit by lightning and blow numerous fuses, especially in the summer. We also were very short of quick couplers and no filtration system.
  Because we are built on a marsh and one of our main issues was pipes cracking, we (Landscapes Unlimited) installed a Rainbird IC system with HDPE pipe/ We have small heads around our tees to minimize wasted water into our marshes and or our paths. We can control the system through an ipad or through our phones. We have a weather station connected to turn the system off when mother natures gets in the way of routine watering. We also have the ability to see how much many watts are going to each head in a matter of 30 seconds. Why is this important? It lets us detected if the 2 wire was cut or we had a lightning strike.
  We have small spacing of head Rainbird 700 series) and a 800 macron filtration pump to keep contaminates from the irrigation water out of our system. Our system, including install, was well under $2m.
  We believe that the system will last us over 30 years and with what we were spending yearly to maintain, it's a wash and were getting a better product for the long term.

[Anthony_Nysse]

And with single head control where every head can be its own zone, and with topo changes, soil moisture measuring devices to help schedule, simple tools like your phone, ipad, or radio to spot water, is it really worth 56% more heads at about $1300 each to pick up 3% in DU?

$1300 a head?!? That's nearly 7x what we paid to have brand new heads install. Spec sheet for us was $196/head installed outside of the original plan. $1300 is robbery or maybe you accidentally added an extra "0."

[Don Mahaffey]

One of the huge factors in system cost is soil conditions.
I have a feeling Tony's course is on sand, which means pulling in laterals, no import for bedding, much easier compaction and finishing.
Plus, I think Tony's (he'll have to clarify) install was considered a "dirt" job like you get with a complete re-grassing or new course.
A two wire system like RB IC also saves significant $$$ vs the more traditional satellite systems. These systems have been vetted and are only getting more reliable.

So there are many variables.

When it is a new system only with no golf or grassing work there is a of sod cutting and replacement for trenching and head install, and if you are in rocky or cobble type soils, the cost can go mush higher.  This grass work adds a lot of cost to the install.

One way I think more clubs should save money is do the grassing part of the job with the maint staff.  let the irrigation guys do the irrigation and let your super and staff handle the grass part of it.  It saves a lot because the real elite contractors who charge the big money have built a reputation of excellent grass work. But with attention to detail and good stamina, I think most maint crews can handle the grassing part.

[Don Mahaffey]

And with single head control where every head can be its own zone, and with topo changes, soil moisture measuring devices to help schedule, simple tools like your phone, ipad, or radio to spot water, is it really worth 56% more heads at about $1300 each to pick up 3% in DU?

$1300 a head?!? That's nearly 7x what we paid to have brand new heads install. Spec sheet for us was $196/head installed outside of the original plan. $1300 is robbery or maybe you accidentally added an extra "0."

Tony, its a total system cost. Of course heads don't cost $1300 each. 
Based on whether there is pond work, pump work, and water window and climate issues, the systems I've seen in the last five years have run from an average of $1000 head to $1500 depending on all sorts of variables.
I'd like to see your spec sheet because I have two bids in FL from the last year where the head cost was $190-$210, but that didn't include the swing arm, pipe, wire fittings, install etc.   
The thing is, when a contractor has a complete job, golf and irrigation work, then it is sometimes hard to see where the profit really is.  When you have unit prices for adds/deletes, contractors will price things based on what they think might be added, and what might be deleted. if they see a system that they think is over designed, they will bid the lump sum, but bid the units low because they know there is a higher chance of things being taken out than being added.  Same with if they see something may be lacking, they will increase the unit prices. This happens sometimes on budget driven projects where the money is very tight to get started, but they know there is a chance that scope will grow. Old saying in these jobs is you have to get her pregnant before you can have a baby.

[Anthony_Nysse]

One of the huge factors in system cost is soil conditions.
I have a feeling Tony's course is on sand, which means pulling in laterals, no import for bedding, much easier compaction and finishing.
Plus, I think Tony's (he'll have to clarify) install was considered a "dirt" job like you get with a complete re-grassing or new course.
A two wire system like RB IC also saves significant $$$ vs the more traditional satellite systems. These systems have been vetted and are only getting more reliable.

So there are many variables.

When it is a new system only with no golf or grassing work there is a of sod cutting and replacement for trenching and head install, and if you are in rocky or cobble type soils, the cost can go mush higher.  This grass work adds a lot of cost to the install.

One way I think more clubs should save money is do the grassing part of the job with the maint staff.  let the irrigation guys do the irrigation and let your super and staff handle the grass part of it.  It saves a lot because the real elite contractors who charge the big money have built a reputation of excellent grass work. But with attention to detail and good stamina, I think most maint crews can handle the grassing part.

 I wish we had more FL sand out here. Lot of loamy, muck. 5 years of heavy topdressing was incooperated and rototilled into existing. The fill that was brought it was anything from 50/50 of beach sand.
  85% of irrigation pipe was open trench. We have approximately 10 miles of drain pipe and 800 drain caps under the fairways and rough, so pulling wasn't an option in most cases.

[archie_struthers]

 


Love you guys , appreciate the input. 


I'm pretty comfortable that we can do a lot of the work in house , like we did at Twisted Dune .  Greate Bay has far smaller playing corridors , so not as many heads or coverage is needed. However at Twisted we had the luxury of having all the earthmoving equipment that selling and moving 5, 000,000 tons of material afforded us available on site. Mobilization wasn't an issue.


One of the hardest things to consider is just how much to do , it's kind of like outfitting a boat for fishing . I'm old school and don' t need all the highest and best technology but many friends feel differently and have all the "stuff" . Keep the good info coming 

[RDecker]

There are a number of Irrigation consultants out there and they can be invaluable.  Getting a good idea of what your options are and what parts of your current system can be saved or replaced inexpensively.  As a veteran Super I can tell you that the irrigation industry is one where knowledge is money and mistakes get expensive and you can't be too thorough when planning things out.  A Consultant will be some of the best money you could spend IMO.

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