[Scott Weersing]

Which courses that will open in 2017 are you most looking forward to?


Here is the short list that I have today:


1. City Park Championship Golf Course in New Orleans, http://www.nola.com/golf/index.ssf/2015/03/new_city_park_golf_course_will.html
(Now called Bayou Oaks Golf Course at New Orleans City Park)
2. Black Course at Streamsong,
3. TPC Colorado, http://www.golfincmagazine.com/content/tpc-colorado-under-construction
4. Sand Valley second course?
5. Sand Valley, first course (does preview play count?)
5. Trinity Forest, https://trinityforestgc.com/golf-course/ (did this one open in 2016 or not?)
6. Royal Golf Club, this could just be a renovation
7. Shepherd's Rock at Nemacolin Resort, [size=78%]https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2017/02/20/the-nine-most-eagerly-awaited-new-golf-courses-of-2017/#516e004a5179[/size]
8. The Summit Club, private, Nevada, [/size][size=78%]http://summitclubnv.com/golf/[/size]

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Add:


Summit Club ( T.Fazio) in Las Vegas http://summitclubnv.com/golf/  Another high end Discovery Land project.


Victory at Verrado (Lehman) in Buckeye, AZ http://verrado.com/victory/golf/

[Jim Tang]

Scott -

Even though Sand Valley was open for preview play at the end of last summer, it officially opens in 2017.  Can we slap SV on the list?


Living in the western suburbs of Chicago, Sand Valley is about 3 hours away.  I am very interested in seeing the course, what the second course looks like at this point and the entire property, in general.  From what I've heard and read, I think the potential for the site is off the charts and hope early success will result in three or four courses being built.


Streamsong Black would be my second choice.  Curiously, I've not heard or read much about it.

[BCowan]

Meadowbrook CC (Northville, MI).  The edgy bold renovation is going to really turn some heads.  It isn't a new course, but it was totally blown up so one could call it a completely new course. 

[Pete_Pittock]

The Grant and Harney courses of Silvies Valley Ranch in eastern Oregon should be up and running in late spring or early summer.
Mostly reversible. Operated by Kemper Golf according to the newsletter.
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[John Cowden]

The Mulligan Course at Ballyneal

[Tom_Doak]

If you're talking about the GOLF DIGEST award, a lot of courses we've already talked about a bit will be eligible next year instead of this year.  Stoatin Brae will have no chance competing against the much-hyped Sand Valley, but it's good enough to get a mention.

[Bill_McBride]

Scott -

Even though Sand Valley was open for preview play at the end of last summer, it officially opens in 2017.  Can we slap SV on the list?


Living in the western suburbs of Chicago, Sand Valley is about 3 hours away.  I am very interested in seeing the course, what the second course looks like at this point and the entire property, in general.  From what I've heard and read, I think the potential for the site is off the charts and hope early success will result in three or four courses being built.


Streamsong Black would be my second choice.  Curiously, I've not heard or read much about it.

Jim, the 2017 Dixie Cup will be at Streamsong in late September and will include a round on the Black as well as the two existing courses.  That's opening weekend for the Black, should be fun.  Details on GCA.com. 

[Jim Tang]

Bill!


Thanks.  I did take notice The Dixie Cup is at Streamsong.  My brother is in Jupiter and I've mentioned it to him.  The dates likely won't work for me with work, but I appreciate the note.

[Jerry Kluger]

I see mention of a second course at Ballyneal - is that a fact and does anyone have any specifics about the course.  I was there a few years ago when Rupert was still involved and he showed us where he would like to build a second course.

[Steve Lapper]

Although I strongly doubt either will surmount Streamsong's Black or whichever Sand Valley course is eligible (especially in a year where Wisconsin golf garners the spotlight), I'd add into the mix both Silo Ridge (a well done Fazio in Millbrook, NY) and Scottsdale National (Jackson Kahn Design). The latter's par 3 course is quite unique and deserved of special recognition.


Granted neither of these are likely to wow the GCA crowd, yet they are both nonetheless, really fun to play.


Cheers!

[Jim Tang]

Jerry -


The new course at Ballyneal is a short course and will open for play in 2017.  I've seen several pictures of the work and it looks fantastic.  It will be a great compliment to a great club. 

[John Cowden]

The Mulligan Course is on the land to the southwest of nos. 1 and 2, east of nos. 3 and 4, and north of nos. 8 and 9 on the big course.   It looks to be a treat.

[Tom_Doak]

The Mulligan Course is on the land to the southwest of nos. 1 and 2, east of nos. 3 and 4, and north of nos. 8 and 9 on the big course.   It looks to be a treat.

This is land we looked at for the big course years ago, but stayed away from because it was too hilly ... we just couldn't find any spots broad enough for a landing area for the second hole.  But, for a par-3 "extra" course without a set number of holes, it is perfect, with a great mix of undulations from mild to wild. 


The design is really a walk on the wild side.  There are four holes I would never have built on a regulation 18-hole course for fear of being labeled crazy, but I thought that's what we needed to do if we were going to convince members to take time off from the main course to play this one.  It is not often you get to build a blind, Himalayas-style par-3 hole in huge dunes without worrying about what people will think of it ... and have it seem mild compared to the holes on either side of it!


I've heard great things about the Bad Little Course at Scottsdale National ... the Mulligan should make for an interesting comparison.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Meadowbrook CC (Northville, MI).  The edgy bold renovation is going to really turn some heads.  It isn't a new course, but it was totally blown up so one could call it a completely new course.

Andy Staples project isn't it?
Great guy!!!

[BCowan]

Meadowbrook CC (Northville, MI).  The edgy bold renovation is going to really turn some heads.  It isn't a new course, but it was totally blown up so one could call it a completely new course.

Andy Staples project isn't it?
Great guy!!!

Michael,

    Indeed it is Andy Staples!  I agree, he is a great guy! 

[Gary Sato]

There's a new Fazio course in South Carolina that's going to open. Rumor has it that it's Fazios last course. It's built for the owner of the Houston Texans who already owns a few courses in the area.

[Steve Lapper]

The Mulligan Course is on the land to the southwest of nos. 1 and 2, east of nos. 3 and 4, and north of nos. 8 and 9 on the big course.   It looks to be a treat.

I've heard great things about the Bad Little Course at Scottsdale National ... the Mulligan should make for an interesting comparison.

Tom,


   It's delightfully vicious. It has an 89 yd hole that is a 2/3 or an 8....not much in between!

[Paul Jones]

Trinity Forest opened earlier this year, I think in September. I played it last month and enjoyed the course.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Add Forrest Richardson's Mountain Shadows in Paradise Valley, AZ. Joe Passov in Golf Magazine placed itin his Top 6 new courses for 2017:




http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/best-new-golf-courses-2017?xid=nl_news

[Forrest Richardson]

It was nice of Joe Passov to include Mountain Shadows. One of the disheartening facts is that GD, Golf, Golfweek and Links have not yet found ideal ways to include short and alternative courses in their primary reviews and lists.


This is akin to the USGA not having a good way to provide COURSE RATINGS for such courses.


Which brings me to the question: What to do about this? While we promote alternative course formats, it is going (my view) to take holding them us as "real courses" before we get the mainstream golfer to embrace them 100%.


Ideas 

[Tom_Doak]

It was nice of Joe Passov to include Mountain Shadows. One of the disheartening facts is that GD, Golf, Golfweek and Links have not yet found ideal ways to include short and alternative courses in their primary reviews and lists.

This is akin to the USGA not having a good way to provide COURSE RATINGS for such courses.

Which brings me to the question: What to do about this? While we promote alternative course formats, it is going (my view) to take holding them us as "real courses" before we get the mainstream golfer to embrace them 100%.

Forrest:


I'm not sure why a short course NEEDS to have a course rating at all.  Many of the people you're trying to attract don't have a handicap, and even if they do, can't they just go out and play for fun and not have to post a score?


I am sure the new Ballyneal course won't have an issue because they don't even have a course rating or slope for the big course there.


I do think calling these "alternative" courses denigrates them to a degree ... it would be better for the magazines to stop putting them in their own category and just include them in pieces about golf in a given area, as I did by writing up Audubon Park for the Confidential Guide.  But, that's yet another example of how all the focus on rankings takes away from appreciating [or even mentioning] fun golf.


If it's not in a list, does it not exist?

[Forrest Richardson]

Yes, the ratings debate is interesting. At Mountain Shadows it has been interesting to follow my clients' email strings about this very subject. One day it is "not an issue" and the next day it "is an issue"!


I think it boils down to two thoughts:


1 - You do have some aging golfers who would like to continue playing, but on a shorter (less time) course. Many of these golfers come from a formal club where they enjoy a full, transportable handicap. I can see their point, even it they are a minority of the players.

2 - You have marketing people (especially with a resort) who like the notion of having a rating to show how challenging the course is to guests — and that large group who will occupy rooms. Especially at a "short" course they want to be able to say, "Hey pal, it's no pushover...look, from the back tees the par-54 layout has a rating of 58.3..."

For those who do not know, the USGA provides full, transportable handicaps to any 9-hole equivalent of 1,500 yards or more (18-hole equivalent = 3,000 yards). They admit — freely — that anything less than 5,000-yards for 18-holes really does not provide an accurate handicap because the math simply does not always work out when you have very, very short holes and not so many above 350 yards. This came direct from the source!


So, you CAN have a USGA course rating (provided through your local/state association in the U.S.) that is fully transportable between courses and events, IF your course is...


- 6-holes of at least 1,000 yards
- 9-holes of at least 1,500 yards
- 12-holes of at least 2,000 yards
- 18-holes of at least 3,000 yards  ...etc


Overall, I agree. Ratings are essentially there for a very few to use literally...but I would submit that they are mostly appreciated for their figurative value...i.e., they provide some context to the golfer, even the casual player, who finds this data a gauge of what course they are going to play, or have just played. Same with SLOPE.


Also, FYI, the USGA does offer a very complex system for a SHORT COURSE RATING and HANDICAP...but the drawback is that this is fundamentally useless as I can see because it relates to nothing in the real world...handicaps or most other courses as a comparison.


http://www.usga.org/handicapping-articles/short-course-handicap-25508.html

[Mike Nuzzo]

I haven't looked at the rating or slope of a course in years.
I haven't posted a score in over a decade.

The easiest way to rate any golf course is to have 4 amateur qualifiers (mid-am or am) play a couple times and take their average scores at the rating.
The USGA uses the amateur events to calibrate their course rating system.


I'm with Tom once again about magazines and their qualifications of golf courses.
So cool Ballyneal has never published a rating.

[Tom_Doak]

So cool Ballyneal has never published a rating.

I think they had one done, and it came out sounding so easy that they decided to skip it altogether.  The original ratings and Slope ratings for most of my courses come out absurdly low by the book, and they always have to go back and adjust them later.  The system does not give enough weight to placement in the fairways, or to the difficulty of the greens as it relates to the approach shot.


Sand Hills, I believe, has no rating either ... I remember they didn't even handicap the holes when it opened, because the wind changes things around so much from one day [or hour!] to the next.

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