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Ian Andrew

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Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« on: September 03, 2016, 08:43:09 AM »
I remember my first visit to St. Andrew’s. I marveled at the history, the examples of great strategies and all the terrific ideas that I could borrow and adapt. I also was a little taken back by how plain it was in appearance early on.

One of the most memorable things about my first visit to Pinehurst #2 was it was the hardest course I ever tried to photograph (that has changed recently). But at the same time I saw the golf course representing the greatest example of how to defend a course without hazards.

"Think simple" as my old master used to say - meaning reduce the whole of its parts into the simplest terms, getting back to first principles.” Frank Lloyd Wright

My favourite era of painting is Cubism (sorry, I’m one of those). During the late 19th century people had discovered African, Polynesian and Native American art. Some of history’s greatest artists including Gauguin, Matisse, and Picasso were inspired and intrigued by the power of such stark simplicity. There were other powerful forces at play, from politics to communication to technological revolution, which all must have played a role. But there work was more powerful through stripping away many elements and returning to core ideas.

Early Modernism in building architecture was a reaction to a period of high ornamentation. It was an attempt to simplify and strip down architecture to its essential elements and remove all the fenestration. In its purest form it was clean, precise and extraordinarily well built. It contained fascinating political undertones and reflected the coming influence of mechanization of society.

Punk music looked at all the self-indulgence and excess of the 1970’s music and sought to strip music down to its basics. Once again it was more than a reaction to music, it was a reaction to the politics and tough economic times too. The results were short, stripped down, direct, often politically charged songs. The contrast was staggering and exciting while managing to encapsulate the tension or that era.

“True ornament is not a matter of prettifying externals. It is organic with the structure it adorns, whether a person, a building, or a park.” Frank Lloyd Wright

When I look reflectively back on Modern Golf Architecture, dominant in the 1980 and 1990’s or the most important Minimalist work done in the 1990’s to now, they share something in common. They feature very elaborate bunkering and were all built to be attractive to the eye. In the last 50 years aesthetics have dominated design.

“Less is only more where more is no good.Frank Lloyd Wright

I love history, so often I like to think about what might come next. Knowing a new movement requires a reaction to the current movement, I found there weren’t many obvious directions to go in golf. The one direction that makes the most sense is the concept of stripping down golf architecture to something far simpler, particularly in presentation. It would address the economics of this current era. It would make a nice reaction to the previous two eras of more and more visual appeal.

Interestingly, in my opinion, it would require architects to show more creativity since they could no longer depend on hazards (bunkers in particular) to visually sell their work. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe bunkering will always be essential to the game, but excessive bunkering has always been architecturally lazy. And why I always felt bunkering to frame a hole or provide a target is the lowest form of the art in our design profession.

Before you point out that St. Andrew’s has a lot of bunkers, or Pinehurst #2 is now so impressive with the waste areas. I will point out both St. Andrew’s and the previous version of Pinehurst #2 did not rely one iota on aesthetics. The courses were great because they played great and that was inspiring enough to have them be considered among the finest examples of architecture in the game.

If we acknowledge that greatness lies in how a course plays and what the ball does on the ground, isn’t it possible, perhaps even probable, that the next movement in the art of golf architecture is a lot less emphasis on bunkering and bunker style and a whole lot more on the ground contours and play.

You wanted something interesting to discuss. Take the time to reflect on what you like and how you would react to this change in the presentation of architecture. Be honest. Kill the idea if you hate it. Fight like hell for it if you think the aesthetics are overdone in general.

 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 08:44:53 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2016, 09:04:31 AM »
Ian:


You need to come and see The Loop.  One of the byproducts of building a reversible course was that we needed to forgo a lot of the aesthetics to make the course work in both directions.  [Nearly everything you do to make a hole look better, in one direction, makes it look worse in the other.]  I understood that going in, but did not quite anticipate the result.


As happy as I am with it, I suspect the course won't be rated so highly by people who have "memorability" and "aesthetics" as prime criteria of worthiness, and I doubt that other clients will clamor for something so stripped down.  It would be nice if design wasn't all about the top 100, wouldn't it?

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2016, 09:26:52 AM »
Tom,

I plan to see the Loop with you, that has always been a given. I'm even more interested with what you just shared. The photos that @brianmooreturf posts on twitter look fantastic.

The September date has given me fits (we have a short window to renovate). I'm trying to figure out if I can get there and keep three projects going. I'm not out, but I'm not in yet either.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 09:28:58 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2016, 09:40:49 AM »
Ian,
Good topic...if sand had been green we would have a lot less bunkers...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2016, 10:50:58 AM »
Ian,

Interesting topic....you are soooooooo deep!

I have been giving the entire "ornamentation" thought process another look. 

I do believe we design for people, and it is time to start designing for the next generation of golfers, not the last.  As much as I think the visuals were affected by us being the "TV" generation, I can't help but think the kids brought up on video games won't want/need even more exciting visuals than even our generation. 

Sometimes I think maybe golf will be urbanites only chance to see nature, which might start a trend back to mostly grass and trees, but then, I see Disney marketing their theme parks as true "adventure" vacations (huh?) and go back to thinking golf will still need to be an even more stylized substitute for nature to be popular.

As to your fondness for Cubism, I agree it was an (over) reaction, just as modern architecture was an over reaction to ornamentation.  But, Cubism also shows how the human brain takes in weird stuff and processes it.  In other words, golf courses as art don't really need to be natural to be appreciated.  And, going all the way back to basics might be an over swing of the pendulum.  In all things, it hardly ever happens, but seems like it would be nice if the pendulum stopped closer to the middle, rather than veer all over the place to extremes.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2016, 10:55:21 AM »
Ian,
The reason you are more fond of Cubism than most of us is that you were free to go there and we have had an embargo on the country for years.... :)
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2016, 11:24:07 AM »
Ha ha ha ... Cuba ... Cubism


Ian, do other architects beyond FLW talk about simplicity? Knowing what I do about his architecture from the few buildings we have of his in Buffalo, simplicity might be the fifth word that comes to mind when I think of FLW, in both appearance and engineering.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2016, 03:47:53 PM »
Ha ha ha ... Cuba ... Cubism


Ian, do other architects beyond FLW talk about simplicity? Knowing what I do about his architecture from the few buildings we have of his in Buffalo, simplicity might be the fifth word that comes to mind when I think of FLW, in both appearance and engineering.

Phillip Johnson...Greene and Greene are a couple
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2016, 04:44:57 PM »
 8)  What would a basic Matisse inspired routing look like?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Pallotta

Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2016, 05:16:28 PM »
Whether in films or books or music or golf courses, I find that I enjoy and appreciate the same basic approach/quality, i.e. art without artifice -- without the self-conscious and self-serving tricks that focus our attention on the artist instead of on the art. 

It takes the rare combination of utmost skill/craftsmanship alongside the maturity and confidence to rein in the desire to show off, or the need to glorify oneself.

It's a knife-edge, I think: the introversion of a saint and the extroversion of a showman -- creating with a pure and clear intention focused on the work itself, yet with a constant awareness that the work exists and is meant to serve others.     

For golf course architects, the wild card is the client. Lots of showmen in the "client class", but few (patron) saints.

Peter

PS - Ian, when you were with DC, did you have a hand in Ballantrae?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 10:34:11 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2016, 05:45:57 PM »
Mies Van der Rohe ............  "God is in the details".


Examples please: My limited perspective is that I have played only 2 courses that might get a 10 (Pinehurst #2 & Pacific Dunes(I presume the latter will get a 10 in the 3rd Volume)).  These courses are anything but minimal or reductionist.  It would take me another 50 rounds or so to begin to"learn" them.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 06:04:17 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 08:18:39 PM »
Ian - Strip it down, but even in its most true, honest and barebones state, it must evoke emotion.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2016, 09:41:30 PM »
Ian,
Good topic...if sand had been green we would have a lot less bunkers...

Mad awesome quote. 
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2016, 10:09:41 PM »
Ian - Strip it down, but even in its most true, honest and barebones state, it must evoke emotion.

But Jaeger...isn't it the decisions and shots that create the emotion?

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2016, 03:30:03 AM »
Ian,
A very well introduced thread and topic.


My preference in golf is for things to be very lean, bare-boned, pared down and rudimentary. I truly believe that there is an opening for golf courses that do not have razz-a-matazz and an overabundance of bunkers. as long as there is contour to the field all would be very well.


So I am all for golf course architecture to enter a supra-minimalist phase. It would be economically sensible and allow many more people to simply hit the ball aboot the course!


Great topic,


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2016, 08:20:16 AM »
Ian - Strip it down, but even in its most true, honest and barebones state, it must evoke emotion.

But Jaeger...isn't it the decisions and shots that create the emotion?


No. Think deeper. You shouldn't need to actually play the game to feel the emotion if the architecture is good enough, no matter how much you strip away... I am talking about connecting the user with the space, in this case it is a landscape.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:39:15 AM by Jaeger Kovich »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2016, 09:34:49 AM »
Ian,


Very interesting topic.  I feel as though the current economics of the game is forcing the stripping down of GCA, which in the right hands may well be a silver lining to some of the excesses of the past.  Jaeger brings up a good point as well, that to varying degrees the aesthetics of the landscape factor in to the experience.  The question is how and to what degree and level of importance.  The subtlest minimalist low budget inland design can provide not only a fun strategic game, but a deep sense of communing with nature.  Whether this translates into rankings and/or economics is a different, albeit integral, discussion.  I guess the challenge is how to make an economically sound plan that focuses primarily on strategy, fun for all and affordable maintenance while perhaps having a few token concessions to the eye-candy bunker crowd that don't blow the budget.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 09:47:42 AM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2016, 09:47:40 AM »
Ian,


Very interesting topic.  I feel as though the current economics of the game will force the stripping down of GCA, which in the right hands may well be a silver lining to some of the excesses of the past.  Jaeger brings up a good point as well, that to varying degrees the aesthetics of the landscape factor in to the experience.  The question is how and to what degree and level of importance.  The subtlest minimalist low budget inland design can provide not only a fun strategic game, but a deep sense of communing with nature.  Whether this translates into rankings and economics is a different, albeit integral, discussion.  I guess the challenge is how to make an economically sound plan that focuses primarily on strategy, fun for all and affordable maintenance while perhaps having a few token concessions to the eye-candy bunker crowd that don't blow the budget.

I think there may already be more of this around than we acknowledge on this site.  First, the types of courses you mention don't advertise and depend on locals. Second, the "over dressed" golf courses you are talking about are usually done that way not for the golf but for attracting people either to resorts or housing or clubs.  And , IMHO, if the land and topography allow natural bunkers with exisiting "in ground" sand then bunkers might not blow the budget.  The need for bunkers in climates and regions where they should not be is the issue.  JMO
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2016, 10:44:04 AM »
Jud - It isn't about aesthetics. That will be stripped away. It is about the honest connection between the architecture and the landscape which should evoke emotion.


Do you think Picasso and Braque were after an aesthetic? Or was it after they started painting what they truly felt inside of them, that people in the salons and galleries felt connected to this sort of expression?


Do you think Jimmy Hendrix wore clothes like that as a part of a wardrobe? No, that was him being true to himself. That is why when he started to play the way he wanted to play, people connected with something nobody had every heard or seen before.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2016, 12:14:12 PM »
Jud - It isn't about aesthetics. That will be stripped away. It is about the honest connection between the architecture and the landscape which should evoke emotion.


Do you think Picasso and Braque were after an aesthetic? Or was it after they started painting what they truly felt inside of them, that people in the salons and galleries felt connected to this sort of expression?


Do you think Jimmy Hendrix wore clothes like that as a part of a wardrobe? No, that was him being true to himself. That is why when he started to play the way he wanted to play, people connected with something nobody had every heard or seen before.
Jaeger--


What aspects of the "honest connection between the architecture and the landscape" are the ones that "evoke emotion," if not the way it looks to the third parties who experience it, and the resulting judgments? A golf course is a piece of visual art. The visuality (?) of it is necessary for the assessment of it.


Also, I'm not sure what implications are attached to your contention that Picasso and Braque (the intent behind Hendrix' clothes doesn't matter much, since his art was sound) were not "after an aesthetic." They painted "what they truly felt inside of them," okay, fine, so what? It's still the case that the people who look at their paintings can't help but regard them as entities in possession of some kind of aesthetic. Whether or not the artist intends to impose an aesthetic on the work, by virtue of being a visual artist, (s)he imposes an aesthetic on the work. No aesthetic, no visual art.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 03:53:48 PM »
First of all, I agree with Tom Doak that The Loop should be experienced in line with this thread.   I think he's done a great job there stripping down architecture - in large part because he had to due to the reversible design.   


Overall, I think that many of the "old" design features have been lost to a large degree.   Deep swales, chocolate drops, and sidehill lies are too often abandoned in favor of what Redanman called the "bunker fetish".


But best to me is a combination of swales, natural mounding, sidehill lies, and great strategic bunkering.




Jeffrey Stein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 05:08:32 PM »
I posted last week about a golf course which truly exemplifies stripped down architecture.  Hopson Hills Golf Course.  No bunkers, no fairway irrigation.  Certainly not the first golf course built like this, but it is a NEW course and a real-time indicator of where US golf may be going in 10-15 years? Hopefully Hopson will still be around in this time...


I'm learning through first hand experience, right now, from customer feedback, maintaining the golf course, and helping with its design that the average player really just wants to find their ball.  Some customers have asked for more "definition" with the use of trees or bunkers and they may indeed be added over time, maybe 5-7.  However, width and "findability" seem to be the key ingredients to the enjoyment of the golf course for MOST people.


Now speaking personally, this is a place which evokes emotion for me because I know how the course was built and I respect the methodology, for its efficiency and thoughtfulness.  Not only that , Hopson also happens to be a beautiful place with long views and a variety of colors and native vegitation.  Some people like myself appreciate the pure intention for golf here, others just want to drink beer and find their ball.  Either way the stripped down architecture can be enjoyed by everyone because its affordable.



I love the smell of hydroseed in the morning.
www.steingolf.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 07:16:01 PM »
The need for bunkers in climates and regions where they should not be is the issue.  JMO


Mike:


Have you ever built a bunkerless course down in that fine Georgia clay?  [Or anywhere else?]


What's the fewest bunkers you have built?  And what's more typical for you?


I definitely build fewer bunkers on the rare occasions we have dealt with clay.  Quail Crossing has about 40 bunkers, if I recall correctly - none at all on the first two holes, but then I spoiled it by putting about 8 of them on the 16th.  Our new course in France also has about 35-40.  That's probably more than they needed; but if I'm going to build fewer bunkers, I'm going to have to staff the projects thinner.  ;)

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2016, 08:51:09 PM »
The need for bunkers in climates and regions where they should not be is the issue.  JMO


Mike:


Have you ever built a bunkerless course down in that fine Georgia clay?  [Or anywhere else?]


What's the fewest bunkers you have built?  And what's more typical for you?


I definitely build fewer bunkers on the rare occasions we have dealt with clay.  Quail Crossing has about 40 bunkers, if I recall correctly - none at all on the first two holes, but then I spoiled it by putting about 8 of them on the 16th.  Our new course in France also has about 35-40.  That's probably more than they needed; but if I'm going to build fewer bunkers, I'm going to have to staff the projects thinner.  ;)

I've built a couple that had between 15-20.  For most courses in my area with a normal budget a flat sand bunker is the only practical solution IMHO.   I just don't see how one can replicate a "sand land" bunker and have it last.  For example, I really admire Cuscowilla  ( not to be dissing a sacred cow on the site ;D ) but the bunkers are a mess because they replicate a sand based bunker.  Just not practical there.  I assume they will be eventually be modified in some way. 
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is It Time to Strip Architecture Down to It's Core?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2016, 08:51:13 PM »

When I rebuilt Maple Downs (new greens, tees and bunkers) I widened fairways, created feeder slopes and used short grass run-offs to emphasize the land. I also removed every target and comfort bunker on the course.

When I presented my plan to the committee, I went hole by hole and each hole was approved on its own merit. When done I finished up and said congratulations you've approved a course with only 29 bunkers!

They couldn't do it.

The number scared them and we added a couple. Eventually the membership fought for a few more. We only added eight, but not one were necessary.

Bunker is far less important than its given credit for strategically. But it's so easy to keep adding more and more and think your creating "more" strategy ... when your not ... your just making things more obvious
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:53:03 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

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