[John Kavanaugh]

After having played there I don't understand the "must play status" for a well traveled American visitor. What did I miss that I couldn't see at any high end club in the States or a thousand clubs in the UK? I can't believe I blew all that cash after refusing to pay for Pebble all these years. What did I either miss or ignore?


Is there another course of Top 100 status where you could find 100 better courses in a 100 mile radius?

[Niall C]

John


Your posts are usually there to wind folk up but in truth I kind of agree with you on this one. I actually do think Kingsbarns is a nice course but I can well imagine a "well traveled American" who is used to big modern designs back home would maybe wonder why travel all that way to play it when there are lots of those type of courses in the US. It's still a nice course though, and probably a better track than CS.


Niall

[jeffwarne]

After having played there I don't understand the "must play status" for a well traveled American visitor. What did I miss that I couldn't see at any high end club in the States or a thousand clubs in the UK? I can't believe I blew all that cash after refusing to pay for Pebble all these years. What did I either miss or ignore?

Sounds to me like you missed Pebble

[John Sabino]

John - You missed:



1. An interesting routing, not just an out-and-back layout
2. Holes of varying length which test your skill on short shots as well as long. I'm not a big fan of having to hit 80% of your shots all day as long shots.
3. Six holes along the Ocean that rival any course in the world for scenic beauty
4. The ability to hit a variety of shots - bump and run, pitches, and a variety of wedge shots
5. Challenging but fair greens - some contoured significantly, some not, but appropriate for the size of the green and the type of hole
6. An intelligent use of terrain and elevation - some uphill shots, some downhill, but not overdone.


How many courses have an opening hole that play from inland out to the sea?
How many courses have a fantastic par five (the third hole) running through the dunes along the sea?


You didn't find the par 4 driveable sixth hole to be exciting? The chance to go for an eagle and run the ball down the slot?


The par five twelfth along the water is arguable like the 18th at Pebble?


I personally find Kingsbarns to be a great golf course and exhilarating to play.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,


I forget, what about the views are special? I find the North Sea to be a bore without structural appurtenances. I love the big rocks at North Berwick and of course the view of the town at St. Andrews. Oddly enough I may have spent most of my viewing time looking away from the sea.


Like I said, this thread is for the well traveled golfer. Are the views really world class at Kingsbarns?

[John Sabino]

Some quotes about Kingsbarns golfers who have traveled a bit:



Graeme McDowell: “It is a great course to play and it has gone from strength to strength every year. I enjoy it more and more every time I come back. Kingsbarns is one of the most beautiful courses in the world for sure. Having won the US Open at Pebble Beach this is probably something that compares to that kind of view and experience."


Colin Montgomerie: “All 18 holes at Kingsbarns are wonderful.”


Paul McGinley: “I loved it, its one of my favourite courses to play.”


Ernie Els: “The course is really nice, it’s a good design and it’s good for all kind of players. Hole 12 is beautiful. It’s unbelievable playing so close to the sea. It is great.”


Rory McIlroy: “I love Kingsbarns. Kyle Phillips has done a great job here. I’ve played some of his other courses. He knows what he is doing when he is designing.”





Martin Kaymer - “I always like to play Kingsbarns because it is so beautiful.”


David Duval - "All the views are incredible."

[Brian Finn]

I would not be interested in opinions from most tour pros, personally.  The qualities that these guys mostly appreciate rarely seem to match my own taste in golf courses.  Sure there are exceptions (e.g. Geoff Ogilvie), but I'd sooner consult a magazine top 100 list (gasp!) or solicit advice from friends before listening to what tour pros have to say about a course. 

[Ryan Taylor]

Ernie Els: “The course is really nice, it’s a good design and it’s good for all kind of players. Hole 12 is beautiful. It’s unbelievable playing so close to the sea. It is great.”

John, I haven't played Kingbarns and won't until 2018 so I'll wait to voice my opinion. However, quoting Ernie Els opinion on golf course architecture is not going to win you any arguments! See Wentworth and the mess he made of the place.

[John Kavanaugh]

I agree that the 6th is a fine hole but it isn't drivable for me. My favorite feature was the water hazard behind the green. It gets in your head even from 70 yds out.


A nice description: http://www.kingsbarns.com/hole-6/

[John Kavanaugh]

Just to say something nice. You can save a bit of money by not taking a caddie. There is not a single shot on the course that you can't figure out on your first play. I enjoyed the solitude and it's an easy push with the complimentary tolleys.

[Niall C]

John - You missed:



1. An interesting routing, not just an out-and-back layout
2. Holes of varying length which test your skill on short shots as well as long. I'm not a big fan of having to hit 80% of your shots all day as long shots.
3. Six holes along the Ocean that rival any course in the world for scenic beauty
4. The ability to hit a variety of shots - bump and run, pitches, and a variety of wedge shots
5. Challenging but fair greens - some contoured significantly, some not, but appropriate for the size of the green and the type of hole
6. An intelligent use of terrain and elevation - some uphill shots, some downhill, but not overdone.


How many courses have an opening hole that play from inland out to the sea?
How many courses have a fantastic par five (the third hole) running through the dunes along the sea?


You didn't find the par 4 driveable sixth hole to be exciting? The chance to go for an eagle and run the ball down the slot?


The par five twelfth along the water is arguable like the 18th at Pebble?


I personally find Kingsbarns to be a great golf course and exhilarating to play.

John


Points 1 to 2 and 4 to 6 could refer to many a links course and aren't really anything exceptional. As for point 3, I agree with John K that the views aren't at all special for Scottish seaside courses. I also agree with John re the sixth (this is a worrying trend). If you can't reach then it's a bit of an odd hole.


Still a nice course.


Niall

[David Whitmer]

When our group was there a few years ago, we had a choice between playing Kingsbarns or playing The Old Course for a second day in a row. We chose to play The Old Course again, and none of us regret our decision. So I can't say anything about Kingsbarns other than we chose not to partake.  One guy whose opinion I respect advised us to skip it, for the reasons John mentioned. Another guy whose opinion I also respect loves it. So while we weren't sure if we would be glad we played it, we knew we would be glad to play TOC a second time.

[Charles Lund]

Speaks to the benefits of multiple trips if you like what you see on the first one.  Go back and try something different if you are inclined.   I played Old twice and Kingsbarns twice.  Happy I did.

Charles Lund

[John Kavanaugh]

The reason I played Kingsbarns in the first place was because Huntley loves it. I still don't know why I skipped the New to play the Jubilee twice. But I do love the Jube.

[jeffwarne]

When our group was there a few years ago, we had a choice between playing Kingsbarns or playing The Old Course for a second day in a row. We chose to play The Old Course again, and none of us regret our decision. So I can't say anything about Kingsbarns other than we chose not to partake.  One guy whose opinion I respect advised us to skip it, for the reasons John mentioned. Another guy whose opinion I also respect loves it. So while we weren't sure if we would be glad we played it, we knew we would be glad to play TOC a second time.

Skipping Kingsbarns to play TOC (a hard to come by tee time) is hardly an indictment of Kingsbarns.
If Kingsbarns was 150 years old it would be revered

[Mark Chaplin]

Two years ago we skipped a third straight round on TOC to play the Castle.......

[Mark Fedeli]

Well, I'll be playing in Scotland for my first time ever in a couple weeks, and Kingsbarns is one course on the menu. I see no reason to skip it as I play courses like Kingsbarns about as often as I play courses like Cruden Bay and North Berwick, meaning: infrequently and after traveling a great distance. So that's why Kingsbarns for me. I don't expect it to compare to TOC, nor would I want it to, but I'm every bit as excited to play it as I am to play all the others.

[Ryan Coles]

John

It's been said on here before but it's true. People like what they can't get at home.

I can or take or leave Leven, Lundin etc. Solid, yet somewhat Bleak tests are available throughout the UK on virtually every coast.

As a Brit, Kingsbarns (and Castle Stuart for that matter) are overpriced and in the states may well be ten a penny. Over here the beauty, flattery and downright photogenic fun of these two courses goes a long way.

Our coastline is full of authentic, yet compromised links courses. We over here no doubt take these for granted.

I would trade playing anywhere in the world perhaps with the exception of the Monterrey peninsula to spend a week at Bandon. The new and jubilee etc are solid courses but I can get a hundred similar experiences. Nowhere provides similar to Bandon. We want what we don't have at home.

[John Cowden]

Ryan, I trust you include Pasatiempo in your Monterey trip, as well as Cypress, which, if it's a one-off trip, is worth passing on Bandon for.   One time.  Maybe two.  Without Pasa and Cypress, however, I'd head to Bandon every time.  (But, then, I did get to play PB first at the age of 14 in a local h.s. golf match, no fee charged). 

[Terry Lavin]

John

It's been said on here before but it's true. People like what they can't get at home.

I can or take or leave Leven, Lundin etc. Solid, yet somewhat Bleak tests are available throughout the UK on virtually every coast.

As a Brit, Kingsbarns (and Castle Stuart for that matter) are overpriced and in the states may well be ten a penny. Over here the beauty, flattery and downright photogenic fun of these two courses goes a long way.

Our coastline is full of authentic, yet compromised links courses. We over here no doubt take these for granted.

I would trade playing anywhere in the world perhaps with the exception of the Monterrey peninsula to spend a week at Bandon. The new and jubilee etc are solid courses but I can get a hundred similar experiences. Nowhere provides similar to Bandon. We want what we don't have at home.

Wow. Come here and we'll wear you out.

[John Kavanaugh]

Well, I'll be playing in Scotland for my first time ever in a couple weeks, and Kingsbarns is one course on the menu. I see no reason to skip it as I play courses like Kingsbarns about as often as I play courses like Cruden Bay and North Berwick, meaning: infrequently and after traveling a great distance. So that's why Kingsbarns for me. I don't expect it to compare to TOC, nor would I want it to, but I'm every bit as excited to play it as I am to play all the others.

You're going to have a great time. Wish I was going myself. Please give us a full report. Even a pic or two.

[Brian_Ewen]

I thought it would have "must play status" from a GCA point of view ?

[Greg Gilson]

Surely the only issue is the price? The only other minor negative I have ever heard about Kingsbarns is that it sometimes chokes up and the pace slows.

IMHO its a lovely course with plenty of variety, "quirk" & interest, generally good conditions and high end, professional service & administration. I do not buy the insinuation that US golfers can find a bunch of  Kingsbarns knockoffs back home. Its surely a must play for anyone making the pilgrimage to Fife that can afford it.

Why not Kingsbarns?

[Thomas Dai]

Surely the only issue is the price?

I would very much like to play Kingsbarns and experience it's architectural/construction merits but at £235/round, no (for me) golf business discount and, unlike most other courses of note in the area, no off-season lower price, well there's no way I'm going too! But if their tee-time sheet is full I doubt they'll mind...supply and demand and price-point and all that.


Atb

[Sean_A]

JakaB is a bit harsh on Kingsbarns.  It is without question a great course and a great constructural concept. Its hard to fathom anybody not placing Kingsbarns top 25 GB&I...comfortably.  However, I think its quite reasonable for folks to say Kingsbarns isn't one of their favourite courses.  There is a definite air of "resort" about the place which imo detracts from the experience.  The green fee too is eye watering. 


Ciao

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