Haggin Oaks - Sacramento - MacKenzie

[Tom_Doak]

The sea wall that blocks the view of the ocean (just like the one at Royal Cinque Ports) is there for the same reason - strong winter storms that virtually destroyed each course. 

As far as I know, the holes across the road are not Mackenzie's.  Good thing because they are rather poor.

The original Sharp Park course had several holes right along the oceanfront.  They didn't last long; a big storm a couple of years after the course opened flooded it with seawater, and necessitated the changes.


It's not possible to lower the sea wall; the last time I was there, last winter, the waves were breaking pretty close to the top [and right onto the street along the beach to the north, where the sea wall ends].  Three of the original holes were actually UNDER the present sea wall, so it's not possible to restore those, either.  And one of the present holes has had to be abandoned due in the settlement with the environmental lobby protecting an endangered snake ... the environmental group wanted to shut down the whole course over that, and it took a decade of court battles to stop that.


The group that wants to restore the course knows it cannot be fully restored, but would like to restore as much of MacKenzie's original plan as possible, with the holes across the road replacing those lost to the sea wall.  I've been advising them for a few years, as has Jay Blasi who lives out there.  There is some light at the end of the tunnel to restore the golf course, but it's far from a done deal yet:  it remains to be seen if there are so many restrictions placed on the work that we have to decide it's not worth doing.  The combination of bureaucracy and litigation involved in working on the California coast is just mind-boggling.  Dr. MacKenzie would have a conniption fit if we had to explain it all to him.

[Tom_Doak]

By contrast, I have never been to Haggin Oaks; the two people I know from Sacramento [both good sources] told me not to bother.  I think they have some of the same issues as Sharp Park ... they can't fully restore the course because of highway construction, so why not just live off the MacKenzie connection and not bother?


It's a shame that places like these can't get someone to help them fulfill their original mission of providing great golf for the masses.  However, the state of municipal golf in America is one of the best cases against government that you could present.  Many once-great facilities are now a hopeless mess.

[Garland Bayley]

However, the state of municipal golf in America is one of the best cases against government that you could present.  Many once-great facilities are now a hopeless mess.

It seems to me that well intentioned or self interested private club members have been screwing up private courses so much that there now is a significant business undoing such screw ups.

I don't think you can blame public entities any more than private.

[Tom_Doak]

It seems to me that well intentioned or self interested private club members have been screwing up private courses so much that there now is a significant business undoing such screw ups.

I don't think you can blame public entities any more than private.

True, but many of the private clubs are now getting fixed, a process partly driven by younger members and by some of their elders who have recognized the decline.


It's hard to imagine the same thing happening with these public courses.  If Sharp Park is restored, the money will come from a handful of philanthropists -- but the main thing that scares them is whether the restored course will just fall back into disrepair.

[Matt_Cohn]

By contrast, I have never been to Haggin Oaks; the two people I know from Sacramento [both good sources] told me not to bother.  I think they have some of the same issues as Sharp Park ... they can't fully restore the course because of highway construction, so why not just live off the MacKenzie connection and not bother?


It's a shame that places like these can't get someone to help them fulfill their original mission of providing great golf for the masses.  However, the state of municipal golf in America is one of the best cases against government that you could present.  Many once-great facilities are now a hopeless mess.

I think Sacramento is one of the places where municipal golf is the healthiest. There are 5 or 6 courses around the city, and Haggin Oaks in particular does really well. They host lots of events, they have a lighted all-night driving range, an enormous pro-shop, foot-golf on the Arcade course, weddings, a putting course...really a model for how to succeed as a public facility in a populated area, I would think. Offer something for everyone and make it fun.

[Garland Bayley]

It seems to me that well intentioned or self interested private club members have been screwing up private courses so much that there now is a significant business undoing such screw ups.

I don't think you can blame public entities any more than private.

True, but many of the private clubs are now getting fixed, a process partly driven by younger members and by some of their elders who have recognized the decline.


It's hard to imagine the same thing happening with these public courses.  If Sharp Park is restored, the money will come from a handful of philanthropists -- but the main thing that scares them is whether the restored course will just fall back into disrepair.

Would you imagine that the same people that pony up for an assessment to restore their course may be the same people that fight tooth and nail to limit municipal finances?

[BCowan]

It seems to me that well intentioned or self interested private club members have been screwing up private courses so much that there now is a significant business undoing such screw ups.

I don't think you can blame public entities any more than private.

True, but many of the private clubs are now getting fixed, a process partly driven by younger members and by some of their elders who have recognized the decline.


It's hard to imagine the same thing happening with these public courses.  If Sharp Park is restored, the money will come from a handful of philanthropists -- but the main thing that scares them is whether the restored course will just fall back into disrepair.

Would you imagine that the same people that pony up for an assessment to restore their course may be the same people that fight tooth and nail to limit municipal finances?

 ''but the main thing that scares them is whether the restored course will just fall back into disrepair.''  Tom is spot on here. 

Why can't said muni be purchased by someone who actually cares about the course and possibly grew up playing there?  Garland your last sentence is rather uncalled for.  Should communities invest tax money in bowling, ect, ect?  There are privately owned courses in many markets that are the same price as Municipal courses to play. 

[Tom_Doak]

Would you imagine that the same people that pony up for an assessment to restore their course may be the same people that fight tooth and nail to limit municipal finances?

Probably, but for the municipal course they are joined by thousands of fellow residents who don't care to see public money spent on golf courses.

[Tom_Doak]

I think Sacramento is one of the places where municipal golf is the healthiest. There are 5 or 6 courses around the city, and Haggin Oaks in particular does really well. They host lots of events, they have a lighted all-night driving range, an enormous pro-shop, foot-golf on the Arcade course, weddings, a putting course...really a model for how to succeed as a public facility in a populated area, I would think. Offer something for everyone and make it fun.

Matt:


Why do you think they did such a poor job of restoring MacKenzie's work then?

[Brent Carlson]

The sea wall that blocks the view of the ocean (just like the one at Royal Cinque Ports) is there for the same reason - strong winter storms that virtually destroyed each course. 

As far as I know, the holes across the road are not Mackenzie's.  Good thing because they are rather poor.

The original Sharp Park course had several holes right along the oceanfront.  They didn't last long; a big storm a couple of years after the course opened flooded it with seawater, and necessitated the changes.


It's not possible to lower the sea wall; the last time I was there, last winter, the waves were breaking pretty close to the top [and right onto the street along the beach to the north, where the sea wall ends].  Three of the original holes were actually UNDER the present sea wall, so it's not possible to restore those, either.  And one of the present holes has had to be abandoned due in the settlement with the environmental lobby protecting an endangered snake ... the environmental group wanted to shut down the whole course over that, and it took a decade of court battles to stop that.


The group that wants to restore the course knows it cannot be fully restored, but would like to restore as much of MacKenzie's original plan as possible, with the holes across the road replacing those lost to the sea wall.  I've been advising them for a few years, as has Jay Blasi who lives out there.  There is some light at the end of the tunnel to restore the golf course, but it's far from a done deal yet:  it remains to be seen if there are so many restrictions placed on the work that we have to decide it's not worth doing.  The combination of bureaucracy and litigation involved in working on the California coast is just mind-boggling.  Dr. MacKenzie would have a conniption fit if we had to explain it all to him.

Thanks for the scoop Tom.  I had the pleasure of playing Pasa today, and if you could accomplish 50% of what you did at Pasa at Sharp Park, it would be one heck of a muni.  Fingers crossed that this all works out.

[Garland Bayley]

Would you imagine that the same people that pony up for an assessment to restore their course may be the same people that fight tooth and nail to limit municipal finances?

Probably, but for the municipal course they are joined by thousands of fellow residents who don't care to see public money spent on golf courses.

But, that goes for almost everything.  I've had childless neighbours that didn't want their tax money spent on public education, and were quite vocal about it.

[Garland Bayley]

Sorry to go off topic. Over and out.