Haggin Oaks - Sacramento - MacKenzie

[Brent Carlson]

This week I had the chance to play 9 holes at the "MacKenzie" course in Sacramento.  While there were some interesting holes, as a whole it did not seem very MacKenzie like.  How much MacKenzie is left in this course?  Does anyone have the original plans or photos?  The land is pretty flat and it would be interesting to see what the good doctor did with the property.

[Pete_Pittock]

Tim Leahy wrote this on another thread titled something like if I could play any course at any time in history



« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2015, 11:23:32 am »
Quote
Mackenzie's original version of Haggin Oaks in Sacramento in 1932 before rerouting and so many changes it is Mac in name only. I have seen the original plans in the clubhouse snackbar and can only imagine what a great track it could have been.

[Brent Carlson]

Tim Leahy wrote this on another thread titled something like if I could play any course at any time in history



« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2015, 11:23:32 am »
Quote
Mackenzie's original version of Haggin Oaks in Sacramento in 1932 before rerouting and so many changes it is Mac in name only. I have seen the original plans in the clubhouse snackbar and can only imagine what a great track it could have been.

Hi Pete.  That's a shame.  I asked around the pro shop and the grill but nobody knew much about how much MacKenzie remains.

[Matt_Cohn]

Haggis Oaks sounds like a weird restaurant.


But yeah, it's a non-Mackenzie golf course on a site that used to have a Mackenzie golf course. But the maps in the clubhouse are really cool.

[Brent Carlson]

Haggis Oaks sounds like a weird restaurant.


But yeah, it's a non-Mackenzie golf course on a site that used to have a Mackenzie golf course. But the maps in the clubhouse are really cool.

Good call Matt.  My spelling auto correct thinks this course is in Scotland.   


Based on these comments it's likely no original holes remain...

[JBovay]

It's been a few years since I've been there, but there used to be an old aerial or routing map. As I recall, the fifth hole (par 4 with the green beyond a ditch) is essentially original. But that's it.

[Ronald Montesano]

With the exception of Pastiempo, which Mackenzie course in the USA are public-access?

[Garland Bayley]

There's that one between 101 & 1 north of SF. Something Redwoods or something.

[Mike Schott]

With the exception of Pastiempo, which Mackenzie course in the USA are public-access?

U of M is public access these days for a hefty fee. But it's not hard to find an alum or someone with connections to get you on at a lower rate.

[David_Tepper]

"With the exception of Pastiempo, which Mackenzie course in the USA are public-access?"

SHARP PARK!!!

http://www.sfpublicgolf.org/news.php?news_id=1680

"There's that one between 101 & 1 north of SF. Something Redwoods or something"

Northwood GC (9-holes, in Monte Rio, CA)

http://www.northwoodgolf.com/

[Brent Carlson]

With the exception of Pastiempo, which Mackenzie course in the USA are public-access?

Sharp Park in Pacifica is the course Garland is referring to.  I played it a few weeks ago and it's pretty rough.  With some investment (unlikely) it could be mostly restored.  I believe 12-13 holes are mostly original.  You can hear the ocean over the sea wall.  Pasa and UM are levels above it. 

[David_Tepper]

Brent -

I am almost certain Garland is referring to Northwood. Regardless, Sharp Park & Northwood are the 2 Dr. Mac courses available for public play in NorCal.

The possibility of restoring Sharp Park is more likely than you think. (with fingers firmly crossed)

DT

[Tom_Doak]

What's the status of the Ohio State course?  Is it open to outside play, too?


[I know it's probably more Nicklaus than MacKenzie at this point, but it's still Dr. MacKenzie's routing.]


I think that, plus U of M, plus the three in California are his only courses in the US that are publicly accessible.  Bayside Links in NY was another, but it didn't last long.

[BHoover]

I think the Ohio State course is fairly welcoming of outside play. In any event, there are so many OSU alumni in and around Columbus, that it's easy to get on Scarlet.

I'm biased in favor of the Scarlet course. I played it all the time in law school (tough to beat the $18 rate as a student). The renovation in 2004-05 was controversial because some enjoyed the post-renovation course and others did not. In my opinion, the 5th and 14th greens probably don't fit the rest of the course (I'm not saying they are bad greens, but they probably fit in better at Muirfield Village than at the Scarlet course). But it's a very good tournament course and I think a fun play.

[Nigel Islam]

I think the Ohio State course is fairly welcoming of outside play. In any event, there are so many OSU alumni in and around Columbus, that it's easy to get on Scarlet.

I'm biased in favor of the Scarlet course. I played it all the time in law school (tough to beat the $18 rate as a student). The renovation in 2004-05 was controversial because some enjoyed the post-renovation course and others did not. In my opinion, the 5th and 14th greens probably don't fit the rest of the course (I'm not saying they are bad greens, but they probably fit in better at Muirfield Village than at the Scarlet course). But it's a very good tournament course and I think a fun play.

I agree with you on the Scarlet course. Is the Gray worth playing Brian?


Also I believe Palmetto in Aiken, SC is open to the public 1 week out of year.

[Tom_Doak]

Also I believe Palmetto in Aiken, SC is open to the public 1 week out of year.

Yes, Palmetto is open to the public the week of The Masters, to help the club make ends meet.  However I believe that the green fee is high enough, and the competition for tee times strong enough, that it's not much different than playing as the guest of a member.


Pretty much all of the private MacKenzie courses outside of the U.S. can be played for a guest fee without a member's introduction.

[BHoover]

The Gray course is worth playing if you want to play another round after playing Scarlet. It's a fun course (and could be even better with a renovation), but I wouldn't go out of my way only to play Gray.

I had heard rumors over the past few years of a possible renovation of the Gray course, but nothing more than rumors. When I was at OSU law school, the rate to play Gray was $14, which is an absolute steal.

[Matt Schiffer]

Northwood and Sharp Park (restoration or not) are both fun and affordable public access with legit architectural merit.  A great flavor of Mackenzie even if not pristine or totally intact.  Colorful characters out there too - the full spectrum of Northern California budget minded golfer!

[Garland Bayley]

Yes, Northwood.
Sharp Park would be south of SF.

[Max Sternberg]

Played sharp park last week for the first time. So much Mackenzie is still there waiting to be brought back. with so few options on the SF peninsula for public golf, the sharp renovation would seem a no brainer

[Tim Leahy]

There are also nine cool holes at Pittsburgh Golf Course near Antioch, Ca that are supposed to be Mac and are public.
As for Haggin the original blue prints are on the wall in the snackbar along with the history of golf in Sacto which is under glass table tops. Pretty cool stuff including an exhibition at Haggin that paired Babe Ruth,  Gene Sarazen and the Gov of CaLi in the 1920's. Unfortunately after the last renovation about 20 years ago there is no recognizable Mac left.

[Ronald Montesano]

The reason I bring it up is, I tried to get on a few private Macs last fall when I was on my sabbatical sojourn in Cali. For some, they told me that I would still have to be the guest of a member, even if all I wanted to do was shoot the course AND leave a copy of the photos with them. I think that's why I enjoyed Pasatiempo so much, knowing that I would probably never play another true and wondrous Mac in my lifetime.

[Brent Carlson]

Brent -

I am almost certain Garland is referring to Northwood. Regardless, Sharp Park & Northwood are the 2 Dr. Mac courses available for public play in NorCal.

The possibility of restoring Sharp Park is more likely than you think. (with fingers firmly crossed)

DT

Good call David.  A restored Sharp Park would be excellent.  Can they bring the ocean into view at all?  That would certainly add to the pleasurable excitement of the round.

[Matt_Cohn]

As for Haggin the original blue prints are on the wall in the snackbar along with the history of golf in Sacto which is under glass table tops. Pretty cool stuff including an exhibition at Haggin that paired Babe Ruth,  Gene Sarazen and the Gov of CaLi in the 1920's. Unfortunately after the last renovation about 20 years ago there is no recognizable Mac left.

I'll be there next week and I'll try to post a few of the old maps and whatnot.

[Bill_McBride]

Brent -

I am almost certain Garland is referring to Northwood. Regardless, Sharp Park & Northwood are the 2 Dr. Mac courses available for public play in NorCal.

The possibility of restoring Sharp Park is more likely than you think. (with fingers firmly crossed)

DT

Good call David.  A restored Sharp Park would be excellent.  Can they bring the ocean into view at all?  That would certainly add to the pleasurable excitement of the round.

The sea wall that blocks the view of the ocean (just like the one at Royal Cinque Ports) is there for the same reason - strong winter storms that virtually destroyed each course. 

As far as I know, the holes across the road are not Mackenzie's.  Good thing because they are rather poor.