Golf Magazine's Top 100 You Can Play - comments, critiques, debates?

[Charles Lund]

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/top-100-courses-you-can-play-1

[Charles Lund]

http://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/americas-100-greatest-public-courses-ranking

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

So this list is 2 years old, correct? This is not their latest issue?

I for one am totally baffled by TPC Sawgrass. It has some holes I really enjoyed - #10 through 12 is a good stretch, as are 16-18. But TV makes it look so much grander than what it is. Is it just because of its originality - a course built specifically for pros, with angles and greens meant to terrorize them?

[Jim Franklin]

Forest Dunes is well deserving on its place. The Loop is even better and makes that a really attractive destination now.

You are saying that The Loop deserves an immediate Top-20 spot?

For public courses? Absolutely. I know a lot of people will not like the current conditioning as the fairways are thin, but roll the ball a couple inches and you have a good lie. It will grow in and will really be sweet then.

[Matt Bosela]

So this list is 2 years old, correct? This is not their latest issue?

I for one am totally baffled by TPC Sawgrass. It has some holes I really enjoyed - #10 through 12 is a good stretch, as are 16-18. But TV makes it look so much grander than what it is. Is it just because of its originality - a course built specifically for pros, with angles and greens meant to terrorize them?

Ryan - here is the link to the 2016-17 list:


http://www.golf.com/special-features/golf-top-100-courses-you-can-play-2016-2017


A couple quick observations:


- Mid Pines wasn't even on the last list so it's definitely moving in the right direction
- I find it interesting that Princeville has dropped from the mid-20s in 2014 to completely off the list this year.  Not enough ballots?  Course closure?
- Longaberger changing its name to "The Virtues"?!  Ugh.  Not a great course by any means but man, why change to such a generic name from such an identifiable one?

[Charles Lund]

This is the most recent list.  The link I posted says updated 2016 but was not the same as this list.

I worked in an area where ratings of human behavior were used as part of rating scales.  Raters were generally trained to some criteria in terms of inter-rater reliability and validation in terms of external criteria.  It seems that course rankings would benefit from similar training for raters and publishing explicit weightings for factors used in ranking.

On the other hand, If someone were to take the rankings of Golf Digest versus Golf Magazine and how much overlap there was (irrespective of ranking) and run correlational measure of actual rankings when both were included, I suspect there would be a high level of agreement or relatively high correlation measures.  The fact that something might have gone from 95 to 103  could be a function of error of measurement or the introduction of a few newer courses or improvements in others.

Charles Lund

Golf Magazine – 2016 to 2017 Top 100 Public Courses

1. Pebble Beach Golf Links Pebble Beach, Calif.
2. Pacific Dunes Bandon, Ore.
3. Pinehurst Resort (No. 2) Pinehurst, N.C.
4. Bethpage State Park (Black) Farmingdale, N.Y.
5. Whistling Straits Golf Club (Straits) Kohler, Wisc.
6. The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island Resort
Kiawah Island, S.C.
7. TPC Sawgrass (Players Stadium) Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
8. Bandon Dunes Bandon, Ore.
9. Harbour Town Golf Links Hilton Head Island, S.C.
10. Streamsong Resort (Red) Streamsong, Fla.

11. Old Macdonald Bandon, Ore.
12. Bandon Trails Bandon, Ore.
13. Pasatiempo Golf Club Santa Cruz, Calif.
14. Streamsong Resort (Blue) Streamsong, Fla.
15. Spyglass Hill Golf Course Pebble Beach, Calif.
16. Shadow Creek North Las Vegas, Nev.
17. Chambers Bay University Place, Wash.
18. Trump National Doral (Blue Monster) Miami, Fla.
19. Blackwolf Run (River) Kohler, Wis.
20. Torrey Pines Golf Course (South) La Jolla, Calif.

21. Forest Dunes Golf Club Roscommon, Minn.
22. Sea Island Golf Club (Seaside) St. Simons Island, Ga.
23. Erin Hills Golf Course Erin, Wis.
24. Kapalua Resort (Plantation) Kapalua, Maui, Hawaii
25. Troon North Golf Club (Pinnacle) Scottsdale, Ariz.
26. Omni Homestead (Cascades) Hot Springs, Va.
27. Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles
Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.
28. The Highland Course at Primland Resort
Meadows of Dan, Va.
29. Caledonia Golf and Fish Club Pawleys Island, S.C.
30. Fallen Oak at Beau Rivage Resort Biloxi, Miss.

31. Cog Hill (No. 4) Lemont, Ill.
32. Mauna Kea Golf Course Kamuela, Big Island, Hawaii
33. Dancing Rabbit (Azaleas) Choctaw, Miss.
34. Paa-Ko Ridge Golf Club Sandia Park, N.M.
35. World Woods (Pine Barrens) Brooksville, Fla.
36. Arcadia Bluffs Golf Club Arcadia, Mich.
37. The Greenbrier (Old White TPC) White Sulphur Springs, W.V.
38. Pronghorn Resort (Nicklaus) Bend, Ore.
39. Dunes Golf and Beach Club Myrtle Beach, S.C.
40. We-Ko-Pa Golf Club (Saguaro) Fort McDowell, Ariz.

41. Reynolds Lake Oconee (Great Waters) Greensboro, Ga.
42. Taconic Golf Club Williamstown, Mass.
43. Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point Bronx, N.Y.
44. Manele Golf Course Lanai City, Lanai, Hawaii
45. Arnold Palmer’s Bay Hill Club (Champion) Orlando, Fla.
46. We-Ko-Pa Golf Club (Cholla) Fort McDowell, Ariz.
47. The Links at Spanish Bay Pebble Beach, Calif.
48. Gamble Sands Brewster, Wash.
49. Bulle Rock Havre de Grace, Md.
50. CordeValle San Martin, Calif.

51. Red Sky Ranch (Norman) Wolcott, Colo.
52. May River Golf Club at Palmetto Bluff Bluffton, S.C.
53. Pine Needles Lodge and Golf Club Southern Pines, N.C.
54. The Quarry at Giants Ridge Biwabik, Minn.
55. Golden Horseshoe Golf Club (Gold) Williamsburg, Va.
56. PGA West (TPC Stadium) La Quinta, Calif.
57. Dormie Club West End, N.C.
58. Troon North Golf Club (Monument) Scottsdale, Ariz.
59. The Harvester Golf Club Rhodes, Iowa
60. Cascata Boulder City, Nev.

61. Mid Pines Inn and Golf Club Southern Pines, N.C.
62. French Lick Resort (Pete Dye) French Lick, Ind.
63. Reynolds Lake Oconee (Oconee) Greensboro, Ga.
64. Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club (Ghost Creek)
North Plains, Ore.
65. Karsten Creek Golf Club Stillwater, Okla.
66. Crosswater at Sunriver Resort Sunriver, Ore.
67. The Broadmoor (East) Colorado Springs, Colo.
68. Atunyote at Turning Stone Resort Verona, N.Y.
69. Linville Golf Club Linville, N.C.
70. The Virtues Golf Club Nashport, Ohio

71. Wolf Creek Golf Club Mesquite, Nev.
72. Innisbrook Resort (Copperhead) Palm Harbor, Fla.
73. Wilderness Club Eureka, Mont.
74. Atlantic City Country Club Northfield, N.J.
75.The Links at Lighthouse Sound Bishopville, Md.
76. The Prairie Club (Dunes) Valentine, Neb.
77. True Blue Pawleys Island, S.C.
78. SentryWorld Stevens Point, Wis.
79. Whistling Straits Golf Club (Irish) Kohler, Wis.
80. Marquette Golf Club (Greywalls) Marquette, Mich.

81. Omni Barton Creek Resort (Fazio Canyons) Austin, Tex.
82. Lake of Isles (North) North Stonington, Conn.
83. Tullymore Golf Resort Stanwood, Mich.
84. Ak-Chin Southern Dunes Golf Club Maricopa, Ariz.
85. Barefoot Resort (Love) North Myrtle Beach, S.C.
86. Hammock Beach Resort (Ocean) Palm Coast, Fla.
87. The Golf Courses of Lawsonia (Links) Green Lake, Wis.
88. Tobacco Road Golf Club Sanford, N.C.
89. Pelican Hill Golf Club (Ocean South) Newport Coast, Calif.
90. The Glen Club Glenview, Ill.

91. Wild Horse Golf Club Gothenburg, Neb.
92. Sunday River Golf Club Newry, Maine
93. The Golf Club at Redlands Mesa Grand Junction, Colo.
94. La Quinta Resort (Mountain) La Quinta, Calif.
95. Rustic Canyon Golf Course Moorpark, Calif.
96. TPC Deere Run Silvis, Ill.
97. Bay Harbor Golf Club (Links/Quarry) Bay Harbor, Mich.
98. Wynn Las Vegas Las Vegas, Nev.
99. Grayhawk Golf Club (Talon) Scottsdale, Ariz.
100. Circling Raven Golf Club Worley, Idaho

[Tim Martin]

I liked True Blue waaaaaaay more than Caledonia.


Spanish Bay at 47 is absurd.


Sunday River at 92 is even more absurd ... I hate that course. Just in New England, The Ranch, Belgrade, Newport National, Mount Washington, and Red Tail are all significantly better than Sunday River. In fact, I could probably list 20 courses in New England that are more fun to play than Sunday River.

Not a fan of the Ranch. A pretty good piece of land wasted with long green to tee cart rides and tricked up features.

[Derek Holland]

So this list is 2 years old, correct? This is not their latest issue?

I for one am totally baffled by TPC Sawgrass. It has some holes I really enjoyed - #10 through 12 is a good stretch, as are 16-18. But TV makes it look so much grander than what it is. Is it just because of its originality - a course built specifically for pros, with angles and greens meant to terrorize them?

Ryan - here is the link to the 2016-17 list:


http://www.golf.com/special-features/golf-top-100-courses-you-can-play-2016-2017


A couple quick observations:


- Mid Pines wasn't even on the last list so it's definitely moving in the right direction
- I find it interesting that Princeville has dropped from the mid-20s in 2014 to completely off the list this year.  Not enough ballots?  Course closure?
- Longaberger changing its name to "The Virtues"?!  Ugh.  Not a great course by any means but man, why change to such a generic name from such an identifiable one?

I believe Princeville has gone private and is no longer eligible.


http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/princeville-resort-prince-course-closure-renovation-hawaii-14909.htm

[MCirba]

It appears I've played 40 of them, as follows.   Most are legit with a few exceptions, IMO.

2. Pacific Dunes Bandon, Ore.
3. Pinehurst Resort (No. 2) Pinehurst, N.C.
4. Bethpage State Park (Black) Farmingdale, N.Y.
5. Whistling Straits Golf Club (Straits) Kohler, Wisc.
6. The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island Resort
Kiawah Island, S.C.
8. Bandon Dunes Bandon, Ore.
9. Harbour Town Golf Links Hilton Head Island, S.C.
10. Streamsong Resort (Red) Streamsong, Fla.

13. Pasatiempo Golf Club Santa Cruz, Calif.
14. Streamsong Resort (Blue) Streamsong, Fla.
19. Blackwolf Run (River) Kohler, Wis.
20. Torrey Pines Golf Course (South) La Jolla, Calif.

25. Troon North Golf Club (Pinnacle) Scottsdale, Ariz.
29. Caledonia Golf and Fish Club Pawleys Island, S.C.
30. Fallen Oak at Beau Rivage Resort Biloxi, Miss.

35. World Woods (Pine Barrens) Brooksville, Fla.
36. Arcadia Bluffs Golf Club Arcadia, Mich.
39. Dunes Golf and Beach Club Myrtle Beach, S.C.
40. We-Ko-Pa Golf Club (Saguaro) Fort McDowell, Ariz.

41. Reynolds Lake Oconee (Great Waters) Greensboro, Ga.
42. Taconic Golf Club Williamstown, Mass.
43. Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point Bronx, N.Y.
49. Bulle Rock Havre de Grace, Md.

53. Pine Needles Lodge and Golf Club Southern Pines, N.C.
54. The Quarry at Giants Ridge Biwabik, Minn.
55. Golden Horseshoe Golf Club (Gold) Williamsburg, Va.
56. PGA West (TPC Stadium) La Quinta, Calif.
57. Dormie Club West End, N.C.

61. Mid Pines Inn and Golf Club Southern Pines, N.C.
68. Atunyote at Turning Stone Resort Verona, N.Y.
70. The Virtues Golf Club Nashport, Ohio

74. Atlantic City Country Club Northfield, N.J.
75.The Links at Lighthouse Sound Bishopville, Md.
77. True Blue Pawleys Island, S.C.

83. Tullymore Golf Resort Stanwood, Mich.
85. Barefoot Resort (Love) North Myrtle Beach, S.C.
88. Tobacco Road Golf Club Sanford, N.C.

91. Wild Horse Golf Club Gothenburg, Neb.
95. Rustic Canyon Golf Course Moorpark, Calif.
97. Bay Harbor Golf Club (Links/Quarry) Bay Harbor, Mich.

[Mark Provenzano]

So this list is 2 years old, correct? This is not their latest issue?

I for one am totally baffled by TPC Sawgrass. It has some holes I really enjoyed - #10 through 12 is a good stretch, as are 16-18. But TV makes it look so much grander than what it is. Is it just because of its originality - a course built specifically for pros, with angles and greens meant to terrorize them?

Ryan - here is the link to the 2016-17 list:


http://www.golf.com/special-features/golf-top-100-courses-you-can-play-2016-2017


A couple quick observations:


- Mid Pines wasn't even on the last list so it's definitely moving in the right direction
- I find it interesting that Princeville has dropped from the mid-20s in 2014 to completely off the list this year.  Not enough ballots?  Course closure?
- Longaberger changing its name to "The Virtues"?!  Ugh.  Not a great course by any means but man, why change to such a generic name from such an identifiable one?

I believe Princeville has gone private and is no longer eligible.


http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/princeville-resort-prince-course-closure-renovation-hawaii-14909.htm

Last word was that it's in limbo (same site): http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/princeville-resort-prince-course-kauai-hawaii-15610.htm

[Derek Holland]

So this list is 2 years old, correct? This is not their latest issue?

I for one am totally baffled by TPC Sawgrass. It has some holes I really enjoyed - #10 through 12 is a good stretch, as are 16-18. But TV makes it look so much grander than what it is. Is it just because of its originality - a course built specifically for pros, with angles and greens meant to terrorize them?

Ryan - here is the link to the 2016-17 list:


http://www.golf.com/special-features/golf-top-100-courses-you-can-play-2016-2017


A couple quick observations:


- Mid Pines wasn't even on the last list so it's definitely moving in the right direction
- I find it interesting that Princeville has dropped from the mid-20s in 2014 to completely off the list this year.  Not enough ballots?  Course closure?
- Longaberger changing its name to "The Virtues"?!  Ugh.  Not a great course by any means but man, why change to such a generic name from such an identifiable one?

I believe Princeville has gone private and is no longer eligible.


http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/princeville-resort-prince-course-closure-renovation-hawaii-14909.htm

Last word was that it's in limbo (same site): http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/princeville-resort-prince-course-kauai-hawaii-15610.htm

Thanks! Apparently I am out of date on that one.

[Tim Leahy]

MCirba its hard to believe you have not played Pebble. Any particular reasons?

[Daryl David]

I started this thread as a reaction  to my own modest golf destination experiences in the Virginia - North Carolina area.  For me it is very informational, not from the point of view of which course is ranked above the other, but for what are courses somewhat nearby that I might be able to go play.

What I learned from this list is Linville, mountain North Carolina Ross, north of Ashville can be played by someone like myself.
Has anyone played that course?  Is it recommended?

Carl, Linville Golf Club is certainly worth the visit. As noted by Tommy a stay at the Lodge may be required but not 100% sure on that. Perhaps our resident Grandfather member would have you out as well and make for a rather special weekend.

Only non member play allowed at Linville is from guests of the lodge.  The course is great.  One of my favorites in NC mountains. The lodge is very nice and the "stay and play" package price that includes breakfast and dinner is very reasonable.

[astavrides]

It appears I've played 40 of them, as follows.   Most are legit with a few exceptions, IMO.

I've played 63. You're a private course elitist. ;-)

[MCirba]

Too funny Alex. 

I'd be happy to match you Muni for Muni.   

[MCirba]

MCirba its hard to believe you have not played Pebble. Any particular reasons?

Tim,

About 15 years ago I was fortunate to play Cypress Point in the morning with some friends from GCA.  After lunch with Mr. Huntley seeing changes the late, great Mike Strantz was making at Monterey Peninsula, a few of us walked Pebble.

Unfortunately my one friend used to play it for $25 while attending Stanford so he wasn't going to pay $450 to play again.  As we were sharing a car it wasn't to be on that trip.

Some day I hope...

[Dan_Callahan]

Not a fan of the Ranch. A pretty good piece of land wasted with long green to tee cart rides and tricked up features.

I'm not saying the Ranch is great. I'm saying it is significantly better and more fun than Sunday River.

[Ronald Montesano]

29 courses for me.


RE: The Loop. Conditioning means nothing to me. Bone structure is everything. Courses that have jumped instantly into the top whatever have a history of dropping out. That said, you might be right about it.


RE: Courses. Why is Triggs Memorial not on this list?

[John Foley]

Wildhorse at 91? Seriously???

[Bill Seitz]

Marquette is a hard place to get to, so it probably suffers from a lack of visits, but just to pick out two courses I've played, I'd split ten rounds between Greywalls and Cog Hill 10-0 in favor of Greywalls, so the 50 spot spread is a little ridiculous.  I'd probably say the same for Lawsonia over Cog Hill.

[BCowan]

Ravisloe didn't make the list, probably not enough time being public.  Not surprised as GD usually gives higher marks for scoring resistance and their lists are always way off IMO. 

[Brian Bowman]

Stonelick Hills should be on that list 

[astavrides]

Too funny Alex. 

I'd be happy to match you Muni for Muni.   

Ok, I've got 27 out of 50 here:
http://golfweek.com/2014/06/25/golf-courses-municipal-golfweeks-best-travel/


Of course, you have me beat in muni course renovations: 1 to 0.

[Tom_Doak]

It appears I've played 40 of them, as follows.   Most are legit with a few exceptions, IMO.

I've been to 72 of them!  But I probably haven't played more of them than you have, even though I've played 19 of the top 20.

[Jon Cavalier]

Marquette is a hard place to get to, so it probably suffers from a lack of visits, but just to pick out two courses I've played, I'd split ten rounds between Greywalls and Cog Hill 10-0 in favor of Greywalls, so the 50 spot spread is a little ridiculous.  I'd probably say the same for Lawsonia over Cog Hill.

I've never played Lawsonia, but I agree with you entirely on 10-0 Greywalls vs Cog Hill. I thought Greywalls was a brilliant and very fun golf course. It's at the end of the earth, but well worth the trip.